The Great Police Work Thread

jsmith6919

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Over a felon in a stolen car with a stolen gun at that
:picard
 

1bigfan13

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Over a felon in a stolen car with a stolen gun at that
:picard
Yeah I'm not getting the outrage over this one.

Based on the information that I've read, I'd have put 2 bullets in that guy's head myself if I were a cop in that situation.

Reactions like this to what seems like a reasonable use of deadly force does nothing but delegitimize the protests against legitimate cases of police misconduct.

Like the boy who cried wolf.

I know there are some blacks out there who don't understand this but newsflash.....sometimes when a black guy is shot by police they actually deserve it. Unless I see additional information that shows otherwise, I believe that guy deserved to be shot.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I don't think that many people reasonably believe that cops take work to shoot minorities.

From the people I know with criminal justice backgrounds the thing I keep hearing is that cops get terrorized into believing that at any second someone might pull a gun on them. They're shown tons of videos of cops that get shot (frequently by minorities) in routine circumstances and start treating routine circumstances as incredibly dangerous. Which is why you have incidents like what happened in Minnesota, where a cop was so scared of getting a gun pulled on him he fired on a man in his car with a kid.

Now there are also definitely departments (like Baltimore PD) that have deep, toxically racist cultures, but I don't think that accounts for the majority of cops shooting unarmed black men.
I actually couldn't agree more with all of this.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I am thrilled with this fact. He was a slow kid who was taken advantage of by the system. If he did do anything it certainly wasn't what he said in his confession. This was the right thing to do, plain and simple.
 

boozeman

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Yeah I'm not getting the outrage over this one.

Based on the information that I've read, I'd have put 2 bullets in that guy's head myself if I were a cop in that situation.

Reactions like this to what seems like a reasonable use of deadly force does nothing but delegitimize the protests against legitimate cases of police misconduct.

Like the boy who cried wolf.

I know there are some blacks out there who don't understand this but newsflash.....sometimes when a black guy is shot by police they actually deserve it. Unless I see additional information that shows otherwise, I believe that guy deserved to be shot.
Right now people are looking for an excuse.

We have gone beyond the point of examining the facts and coming to a conclusion about justification.

It was simply the fact the guy was black and the police shot him.
 

boozeman

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I am thrilled with this fact. He was a slow kid who was taken advantage of by the system. If he did do anything it certainly wasn't what he said in his confession. This was the right thing to do, plain and simple.
Yeah, but it still doesn't bring back his youth which was plainly robbed from him.

Then again, as simple as the kid is, I don't know what was robbed from him.
 

Cotton

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Right now people are looking for an excuse.

We have gone beyond the point of examining the facts and coming to a conclusion about justification.

It was simply the fact the guy was black and the police shot him.
It's gotten out of hand, and Obama hasn't helped. He should be behind cops first and judging cops second.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Yeah, but it still doesn't bring back his youth which was plainly robbed from him.

Then again, as simple as the kid is, I don't know what was robbed from him.
Yeah it's genuinely sad. It has the potential to make an evil person out of one who didn't start that way.
 

fortsbest

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I don't think that many people reasonably believe that cops take work to shoot minorities.

From the people I know with criminal justice backgrounds the thing I keep hearing is that cops get terrorized into believing that at any second someone might pull a gun on them. They're shown tons of videos of cops that get shot (frequently by minorities) in routine circumstances and start treating routine circumstances as incredibly dangerous. Which is why you have incidents like what happened in Minnesota, where a cop was so scared of getting a gun pulled on him he fired on a man in his car with a kid.

Now there are also definitely departments (like Baltimore PD) that have deep, toxically racist cultures, but I don't think that accounts for the majority of cops shooting unarmed black men.
All right dude. They show those videos in order that cops learn to see the warning signs (if there are any) and to make them understand how important it is to always be alert. The fact is that circumstances can and do go south in an instant and it could just be the one time the officer turned away because they thought the situation was normal. There is no normal for an officer on the street. Hell, what about the two cops in NY last year that were shot while sitting in their car. Those videos are rel life examples of why we always pay attention especially to people hands. Don't dismiss something you don't understand because it sounds silly to you. And I attended two forums in the past month where people must have actually thought that cops want to shoot them and their kids because they several actually asked the dumbass question what do I tell me kids to do so cops won't shoot them. :picard
 

townsend

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All right dude. They show those videos in order that cops learn to see the warning signs (if there are any) and to make them understand how important it is to always be alert. The fact is that circumstances can and do go south in an instant and it could just be the one time the officer turned away because they thought the situation was normal. There is no normal for an officer on the street. Hell, what about the two cops in NY last year that were shot while sitting in their car. Those videos are rel life examples of why we always pay attention especially to people hands. Don't dismiss something you don't understand because it sounds silly to you. And I attended two forums in the past month where people must have actually thought that cops want to shoot them and their kids because they several actually asked the dumbass question what do I tell me kids to do so cops won't shoot them. :picard
Right but if you treat every situation as potentially deadly, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. "Being ready for anything" means shooting them before they shoot you. So they kill Tamir Rice, they kill Eric Garner, they kill Alton Sterling, and Philindo Castille. They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.
 

Cotton

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Right but if you treat every situation as potentially deadly, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. "Being ready for anything" means shooting them before they shoot you. So they kill Tamir Rice, they kill Eric Garner, they kill Alton Sterling, and Philindo Castille. They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.
The thing is, you can't put yourself in their shoes. Don't judge what you can't even possibly relate to.
 

fortsbest

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Right but if you treat every situation as potentially deadly, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. "Being ready for anything" means shooting them before they shoot you. So they kill Tamir Rice, they kill Eric Garner, they kill Alton Sterling, and Philindo Castille. They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.
No it doesn't. Being ready for anything means exactly that. Reacting to what happens, not proactively shooting someone because you are scared. And I didn't say it never happens. But given the extraordinary amount of contacts police have with citizens the amount of times it happens is minuscule. And worse for idiots to only take the times it happens to black folk and completely ignore the fact that it happens to whites more often is specious at best and down right dishonest and loathsome at worst. People with an agenda do it because it creates dissention and discord between races to further their agenda. What's your excuse or have you just bought into the lie as well. And I quote,
"They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.", this lie is despicable.
There are officers that shouldn't be but your generalization here is part of the problem.
 

townsend

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The thing is, you can't put yourself in their shoes. Don't judge what you can't even possibly relate to.
I'm not judging their morality, or their character, I'm judging their actions. We have a problem with police shooting people, I'm just pointing to the cause of it.
 

townsend

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No it doesn't. Being ready for anything means exactly that. Reacting to what happens, not proactively shooting someone because you are scared. And I didn't say it never happens. But given the extraordinary amount of contacts police have with citizens the amount of times it happens is minuscule. And worse for idiots to only take the times it happens to black folk and completely ignore the fact that it happens to whites more often is specious at best and down right dishonest and loathsome at worst. People with an agenda do it because it creates dissention and discord between races to further their agenda. What's your excuse or have you just bought into the lie as well. And I quote,
"They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.", this lie is despicable.
There are officers that shouldn't be but your generalization here is part of the problem.
It's true that Whites get shot and no one gives a damn. Mostly because whites really aren't a unified group. But the number of unarmed minorities that get shot is not a lie.

https://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

For whatever reason (and there are a few) cops are far more likely to use lethal force when dealing with young black men. That's not a vilification of the police, because I'm in agreement with the Dallas police chief that we ask too much. We place too much pressure on the police force, and I think we should be evaluating their mental state much more closely.

A perfect example was the behavioral therapist in Florida that was shot. He asked the cop why he shot him, and the cop responded that he "didn't know". That's crazy pants. That's a situation where an officer so scared that they are threats to the people around them, and his involvement accelerated a situation that could probably could have been solved without him, into one that that could have ended a life.

We need to do more to help officers that are past the point of vigilance and are showing erratic and dangerous behaviors. We need to get them in situations where they don't have to decide whether or not to deploy lethal force.
 

L.T. Fan

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Right but if you treat every situation as potentially deadly, it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. "Being ready for anything" means shooting them before they shoot you. So they kill Tamir Rice, they kill Eric Garner, they kill Alton Sterling, and Philindo Castille. They shoot minorities without justification, because their paranoia makes them kill innocent people, and it's unacceptable.
Fort is speaking from hands on experience and you are debating from an academic theoretical position. Don't you think he might have an edge on the overall picture?
 

townsend

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Fort is speaking from hands on experience and you are debating from an academic theoretical position. Don't you think he might have an edge on the overall picture?
I'm not denying Forts personal experience. But my perspective is also from people I've talked to with police backgrounds, and an understanding of criminal justice training.

Forts is a good police officer, and therefore his personal experience is specific to how training and pressure of the job would affect a well seasoned, stable and competent police officer. What I'm talking about is the minority of green, overwhelmed, mentally compromised officers that are still being put out on the street, and are a risk to others. Which the Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Philando Castille, etc deaths point to.
 

L.T. Fan

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I'm not denying Forts personal experience. But my perspective is also from people I've talked to with police backgrounds, and an understanding of criminal justice training.

Forts is a good police officer, and therefore his personal experience is specific to how training and pressure of the job would affect a well seasoned, stable and competent police officer. What I'm talking about is the minority of green, overwhelmed, mentally compromised officers that are still being put out on the street, and are a risk to others. Which the Tamir Rice, Eric Garner, Philando Castille, etc deaths point to.
But you will find exceptions and misfits in any field of endeavor. With that said I realize law enforcement is a more serious situation as to life and death situations but to take the exceptions and display those results as commonplace and routine is a mistake in my opinion.

The practice of posting every incident of this nature is primarily for the purpose of skewing the image of law enforcement. It is intentional with a motive of hate and division.

I know there are rouge and personal agenda personnel in law enforcement but I am also of the opinion that the mission of the organization is to protect and serve and most are committed to this end. I cannot really imagine what the country would be like absent the service of these public servants.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Fort is speaking from hands on experience and you are debating from an academic theoretical position. Don't you think he might have an edge on the overall picture?
The problem with the argument is that you can't claim that someone has been conditioned and then talk to a person who has been conditioned to be in fear on his job and expect him to say anything other then what the conditioning has taught him. Which is that the fear is justified and necessary.

It's not different then talking to a black person who I would claim has been conditioned by media to be in fear every time they are pulled over, and then expect that conditioned person to say their terror isn't justified.

I'm sure some people feel like officers have the most dangerous job in the United States. And hell maybe that is true. Statistically they aren't even close but you'll never convince an officer of that because the easy counter argument is that they are just hyper vigillant compared to other careers with much higher death rates such as Logging workers, Fishers and related fishing workers, Aircraft pilots and flight engineers and Roofers. That it's their guns and threat of lethal use that keeps their job from having the highest death rate.

But the cause of a lot of these police shootings is pretty clear, it's officers that are overly fearful in situations that they shouldn't be so afraid.
 

L.T. Fan

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The problem with the argument is that you can't claim that someone has been conditioned and then talk to a person who has been conditioned to be in fear on his job and expect him to say anything other then what the conditioning has taught him. Which is that the fear is justified and necessary.

It's not different then talking to a black person who I would claim has been conditioned by media to be in fear every time they are pulled over, and then expect that conditioned person to say their terror isn't justified.

I'm sure some people feel like officers have the most dangerous job in the United States. And hell maybe that is true. Statistically they aren't even close but you'll never convince an officer of that because the easy counter argument is that they are just hyper vigillant compared to other careers with much higher death rates such as Logging workers, Fishers and related fishing workers, Aircraft pilots and flight engineers and Roofers. That it's their guns and threat of lethal use that keeps their job from having the highest death rate.

But the cause of a lot of these police shootings is pretty clear, it's officers that are overly fearful in situations that they shouldn't be so afraid.
Simply put police officers should be conditioned to approach their duties with caution and fear because a great deal of their duties consist of circumstances that are potentially highly volatile. Their job as civilian protectors are contingent on how observant they can be toward seeing danger materializing. This is obviously not the common approach to most jobs.
 
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