Religion thread...

Jiggyfly

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Actually it isn't what he peddles that chaffs people. It the fact that he is financially successful doing it. It's the money that burns their fannies. Some act like he is duping folks out of their life's savings. .
And this coming from a guy who is always crying about people projecting things about him, how hypocritical of you.

You have no idea what people are chaffed about, so the next time you whine about people generalizing others remember this post.
 

Jiggyfly

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I do have to wonder how much wealth you can acrew as a Christian, especially a preacher, and represent the faith.

It's one thing to live comfortably, but you have to ask if insulating yourself from humanity isn't opposed to everything Christ represented. After all he was a man who walked the streets and touched lepers, socialized with thieves, and told men to sell their belongings to follow him.

Christianity can't properly be practiced from a palatial estate. Even if Joel is a charitable guy, I think that he and Jesus would not see eye to eye at all on how much money he uses on himself.
That's my issue with it as well where is the humility and sacrifice in living as he is and could he not do a lot more christian things with that money instead of living as he is.

How many comandments is he disregarding by living that lifestyle.

And what about the whole rich man and eye of the needle thing.

That's one thing I respect about this new pope he is at least questioning how lavish the catholic church has gotten and has refused some of the perks.
 

L.T. Fan

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And this coming from a guy who is always crying about people projecting things about him, how hypocritical of you.

You have no idea what people are chaffed about, so the next time you whine about people generalizing others remember this post.
I do have an idea because money is what everyone brings up. And I don't whine. I am pretty up front with my commentary. Try again to be pleasant. So far you have failed.
 

Texas Ace

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I do have to wonder how much wealth you can acrew as a Christian, especially a preacher, and represent the faith.

It's one thing to live comfortably, but you have to ask if insulating yourself from humanity isn't opposed to everything Christ represented. After all he was a man who walked the streets and touched lepers, socialized with thieves, and told men to sell their belongings to follow him.

Christianity can't properly be practiced from a palatial estate. Even if Joel is a charitable guy, I think that he and Jesus would not see eye to eye at all on how much money he uses on himself.
Excellent post.

This sums up perfectly how I feel on the matter.
 

Jiggyfly

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I do have an idea because money is what everyone brings up. And I don't whine. I am pretty up front with my commentary. Try again to be pleasant. So far you have failed.
Money and how it fits with Christian teachings, nobody is bringing it up in a vacuum.

Does the bible not frown on excess or not?

It's good to know how much of a hypocrite you are since you have no problem categorizing everybody when its fits you.
 

Jiggyfly

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Here are a few excerpts from the bible that raises these questions.



Timothy 6:7-10 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
Proverbs 23:4 Do not weary yourself to gain wealth, cease from your consideration of it.
Mark 12:41-44 And He sat down opposite the treasury, and began observing how the people were putting money into the treasury; and many rich people were putting in large sums. A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent.Calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on
Matthew 19:21-26 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But when the young man heard this statement, he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property. And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.
1 Timothy 6:9-11 But those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a snare and many foolish and harmful desires which plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But flee from these things, you man of God, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance and gentleness.
 

Texas Ace

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[MENTION=19]skidadl[/MENTION] does make a good point, though.

What is the X number that would be suitable for people? There are people who have an issue with wealthy Christians or at least pastors of wealth (as do I, to an extent), but they can't tell you exactly what it is they think a pastor is entitled to in terms of exact income nor can they give you specifics on what he should make and what he should give. On that front, I totally get where Skid is coming from.

But there are some things that don't require specifics and I think this is one of them. As Townsend pointed out so well, there's just a general understanding and common sense that should apply in this instance. If you are a person of Christian faith, and you go to church and you read your bible and you follow the gospel, then you have a good understanding of who the Lord is and how he would operate and how he would want you to be as a person.

None of us, not even the most noble and pure-hearted Christian on the planet knows exactly how God works and how he thinks, but much how our beliefs are based on faith moreso than facts, so is our understanding of how the Lord would expect us to act and how he might view this or that scenario.

Do I think it's wrong for a Christian or even a pastor to be wealthy? Absolutely not, and I've explained why in previous posts so I won't go into all that detail again. But I do think there is a certain limit or a point that one reaches, that cannot be defined by exact numbers, where you should have the presence of mind to grasp the situation you're in and apply your knowledge and understanding of the faith towards it and ask yourself if you are living in a manner that the Lord would approve of.

For those of us who believe in the Lord, (skid, [MENTION=11]L.T. Fan[/MENTION]), we all have those moments in life where we talk to God. Only one of us is actually speaking, but we wholeheartedly feel that we are in a 2-way conversation with God. Sometimes, those conversations consist of asking God to lead us down the right path when we might be confused with what decision to make, or even if we're questioning our own decision-making in that situation we're in. And more to the point, we'll often stop ourselves from doing ABC or persuade ourselves to do XYZ because we've asked ourselves "What would God want me to do?? or "Would the Lord approve of this if he were physically here to see this?".......and what do we do? We make a decision based on what we believe God would want us to do and that decision is based on our understanding of him and how he works.

We don't actually KNOW, but we make our best guess based on what we've learned and what we believe.

I believe that this is exactly what should take place in the Joel Osteen situation. Is it ok for him to be wealthy? Absolutely. Is it ok for him to drive a Mercedes? Why not? Is it ok for him to have a big home in a private community? Of course, after all, God wants us to be happy and to live an enriched life in every way possible.

But do I see why people have a problem with him having a 10,000 sq ft compound? Yes. Is it a bit absurd and contradictory for him to have a private jet? No doubt about it.

At some point, Joel Osteen should realize that he's gone beyond the point of living well and is now living in excess. Once he's reached that point, I believe he is then living in a manner that the Lord would not approve of. Instead of spending money on a private jet, why not donate that money to cancer research? Why not provide tons of food to homeless people during the holiday season?

Do you really need a humongous house of that size? He'd be more than fine in a 4,000 sq ft home. I live pretty well off, and chances are I'll never live a 4,000 sq ft home, so I know he'd be just fine in one. I mean, not just anyone can afford or is fortunate enough to live in a home of that size or live in such a privileged state of luxury, so it's not like he'd be suffering living in a house like that.

Those are just a few examples of what I see wrong with the Joel Osteen picture and how I personally feel a man of Christian faith, especially one who is supposed to be preaching the gospel, should enjoy and use his wealth.
 
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Jiggyfly

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[MENTION=19]skidadl[/MENTION] does make a good point, though.

What is the X number that would be suitable for people? There are people who have an issue with wealthy Christians or at least pastors of wealth (as do I, to an extent), but they can't tell you exactly what it is they think a pastor is entitled to in terms of exact income nor can they give you specifics on what he should make and what he should give. On that front, I totally get where Skid is coming from.

But there are some things that don't require specifics and I think this is one of them. As Townsend pointed out so well, there's just a general understanding and common sense that should apply in this instance. If you are a person of Christian faith, and you go to church and you read your bible and you follow the gospel, then you have a good understanding of who the Lord is and how he would operate and how he would want you to be as a person.

None of us, not even the most noble and pure-hearted Christian on the planet knows exactly how God works and how he thinks, but much how our beliefs are based on faith moreso than facts, so is our understanding of how the Lord would expect us to act and how he might view this or that scenario.

Do I think it's wrong for a Christian or even a pastor to be wealthy? Absolutely not, and I've explained why in previous posts so I won't go into all that detail again. But I do think there is a certain limit or a point that one reaches, that cannot be defined by exact numbers, where you should have the presence of mind to grasp the situation you're in and apply your knowledge and understanding of the faith towards it and ask yourself if you are living in a manner that the Lord would approve of.

For those of us who believe in the Lord, (skid, [MENTION=11]L.T. Fan[/MENTION]), we all have those moments in life where we talk to God. Only one of us is actually speaking, but we wholeheartedly feel that we are in a 2-way conversation with God. Sometimes, those conversations consist of asking God to lead us down the right path when we might be confused with what decision to make, or even if we're questioning our own decision-making in that situation we're in. And more to the point, we'll often stop ourselves from doing ABC or persuade ourselves to do XYZ because we've asked ourselves "What would God want me to do?? or "Would the Lord approve of this if he were physically here to see this?".......and what do we do? We make a decision based on what we believe God would want us to do and that decision is based on our understanding of him and how he works.

We don't actually KNOW, but we make our best guessed based on what we've learned and what we believe.

I believe that this is exactly what should take place in the Joel Osteen situation. Is it ok for him to be wealthy? Absolutely. Is it ok for him to drive a Mercedes? Why not? Is it ok for him to have a big home in a private community? Of course, after all, God wants us to be happy and to live an enriched life in every way possible.

But do I see why people have a problem with him having a 10,000 sq ft compound? Yes. Is it a bit absurd and contradictory for him to have a private jet? No doubt about it.

At some point, Joel Osteen should realize that he's gone beyond the point of living well and is now living in excess. Once he's reached that point, I believe he is then living in a manner that the Lord would not approve of. Instead of spending money on a private jet, why not donate that money to cancer research? Why not provide tons of food to homeless people during the holiday season?

Do you really need a humongous house of that size? He'd be more than fine in a 4,000 sq ft home. I live pretty well off chances are I'll never see a 4,000 sq ft home, so I know he'd be just fine in one.

Those are just a few examples of what I see wrong with the Joel Osteen picture and how I personally feel a man of Christian faith, especially one who is supposed to be preaching the gospel, should enjoy and use his wealth.
You are just envious.
 

L.T. Fan

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Money and how it fits with Christian teachings, nobody is bringing it up in a vacuum.

Does the bible not frown on excess or not?

It's good to know how much of a hypocrite you are since you have no problem categorizing everybody when its fits you.
Here's one for you. Mathew 7: 1. Judge not so that you are not judged.
 

skidadl

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We see the church from an American viewpoint.

The poorest of the world's Christians would be equally outraged and disgusted at out waste and overflow of crap.

It really is a matter of perspective to a certain extent. Really we are all wealthy to most of the rest of the world. I doubt that anyone here would sell their house and move into and apartment so they can give the rest of the money away. I doubt that many here give a dime to the poor, much less a significant amount of their income. Could some of you love in a single wide trailer so you can give more away? I doubt it. What we have is excess in so many ways but it has become our norm.

Don't know if Joel so a crook orbit but I know he's done more for poverty than any of us could do if we pooled all of our money together for life.

Joel may be a crook. I have no idea. I know he give a LOT of money to the poor and the he has given lots of money from his books to help build the 40,000 member church that he runs. His church has been operating for 50 years starting with his dad. He stuttered and never saw or asked to be a public speaker. He never wanted to be a preacher.
 

townsend

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I'd be really interested in seeing how Olsteen decides to deal with his wealth after he dies. Assuming I outlast him. A lot of athiests like Gates and Zuckerberg plan on giving most of their fortunes to charity, I wonder if he'll be as generous as those secularists.
 

skidadl

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image.jpg

I really wish someone on the board would understand this because it is really funny.
 

Jiggyfly

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I hope Jiggy doesn't get me confused with you again because I got blasted for your comments. :art
Did you not say this?

Originally Posted by L.T. Fan View Post
Actually it isn't what he peddles that chaffs people. It the fact that he is financially successful doing it. It's the money that burns their fannies. Some act like he is duping folks out of their life's savings. .
 

L.T. Fan

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Did you not say this?
I did say that but this is not what you responded to. You call me a hypocrite because you thought I said you were envious of him when in reality Skidadle said that.
 
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