Arizona passes controversial anti-gay bill

UncleMilti said:

I think this is a stupid law if its passed- but I gotta be honest, I think stuff like this is just the beginning for the gay crowd.

The problem is the gays want to force every state to recognize their right to be married and have equal rights. OK...I'm fine with that...AS LONG as everyone else's rights aren't trampled in the process.

If the MAJORITY of a voting segment in a state votes against gays being married or certain gay rights, then that should be it. If you are gay and in a state that's not gay-friendly, then move to a state that allows gay marriage or the gay rights that suit you.

Basically, I don't have a huge issue with gay rights, but I have a huge problem with a judge basically stomping laws that are passed by a legal vote- whether its gays, discrimination, illegals, tax laws...whatever.

The basic fundamental right and wishes of the voter and the voting majority are nullified because of a small minority and a judge. That's scary, IMO.

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I think it may be the Constitution that nullifies laws like this. I'm no expert, but I think there is something in there about no citizen will be discriminated against or something.

The term discrimination has taken on a very narrow description. It has almost become a completely negative term when in reality it is a function that allows individuals to utilize their circumstance to decide what is best for them. Everyone should be allowed to make preferential determinations. It is a process that formulates personal choices.

BipolarFan said:

I think it may be the Constitution that nullifies laws like this. I'm no expert, but I think there is something in there about no citizen will be discriminated against or something.

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The constitution only protects against government action, with limited exceptions. Also, it says NOWHERE in the constitution that no citizen can be discriminated against. There are certain protected classes, but no general protection against discrimination.

Homosexuals are not a protected class, not under the constitution, not under the Civil Rights Act, or any other federal legislation that I'm aware of.

junk said:

I don't think so. I think you can only refuse service if there is a legitimate business need.



http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/title2.php

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That's not ANY business, just those of public accommodations, as defined in the statute (essentially the statute covers restaurants, hotels, movie theaters, sports stadiums, and similar businesses, and only those within the stream of interstate commerce, which according to Wickard v. Filburn is just about anything ).

If feel like Phil is being very sarcastic in this thread, or at the least playing devil's advocate. I could be wrong.

E_D_Guapo said:

So basically Arizona's stance is fuck you African-Amercians, Mexicans, and gays. I guess you can't expect a piece of shit desert state full of seniors, meth heads, and Hostile-ity to be forward-thinking.

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Businesses shouldn't be forced to serve people they don't want to.

junk said:

Can a business assert anti-religious beliefs to deny service to Christians? Or Muslims? Or Mormons? Oh nope, they can't. That is against the law.

I guess part of the reason that people are hypocrites is that they just can't see that they're hypocrites

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Yeah but they should be allowed to.

skidadl said:

I mean, come on. Do you honestly think that a company with a policy like this could make it in the real world?

I could never or would never want to deny a gay person service. To me that is just disgusting behavior.

But the deal is, if someone wants to have stupid religious convictions they should be able to with their hard earned money.

Still, if someone practiced this they would be out of business in a hurry like the people who owned a donuts shop or wedding shop of some kid.

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And that would be a foolish risk to run..... unless it's the truth that, as a matter of your absolute religious convictions, you feel that it is wrong to make a wedding cake for two men.

If that's the case, it's disgusting that the government would force them to choose between violating their honest religious beliefs or shutting down.

pdom said:

I'd like to get rid if all the ADA rules - handicap ramps, wheelchair lifts, signage. As a business owner, talk about a waste of my money for a non-profitable set of customers.

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Now you're talking smart.

Iimagine if McDonalds, in today's twitter and facebook society, decided to do away with handicap ramps.

The backlash would be astronomical.

So before we pretend that we're going to return to 1940s Jim Crow because we don't make every business jump through rigid and uncompromising anti-discrimination statues, which in turn actually do trample on religious freedoms, consider the fact that those scenarious would be pure fantasy in today's society.

If you want proof, look at how quickly gay marriage, as an issue, has gone from having almost universal condemnation, even in fairly liberal states, to almost universal acceptance. Like ten years has seen a complete 180 in public opinion.

There's no justification whatsoever in forcing small businesses to comply, other than fucking fascism.

mschmidt64 said:

Businesses shouldn't be forced to serve people they don't want to.

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I didn't say anything about what businesses should or shouldn't be allowed to do. I just think given its stances on certain issues the state of Arizona looks like it is filled with a bunch of assholes.

E_D_Guapo said:

I didn't say anything about what businesses should or shouldn't be allowed to do. I just think given its stances on certain issues the state of Arizona looks like it is filled with a bunch of assholes.

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Well the law says that the businesses don't have to serve people they don't want to. I thought you said that law makes them look like assholes.

I don't think so. There is a disturbing trend of courts trying to force them to do this; it's the courts that look like assholes.

mschmidt64 said:

Well the law says that the businesses don't have to serve people they don't want to. I thought you said that law makes them look like assholes.

I don't think so. There is a disturbing trend of courts trying to force them to do this; it's the courts that look like assholes.

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What trend?

Courts are only reacting to these new laws springing up they are not going out of there way to force anything, these types of laws are just more republican grandstanding, what public good is this serving and what percentage of religious people really want this.

This is the epitome of catering to the loons.

Jiggyfly said:

What trend?

Courts are only reacting to these new laws springing up they are not going out of there way to force anything, these types of laws are just more republican grandstanding, what public good is this serving and what percentage of religious people really want this.

This is the epitome of catering to the loons.

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People who have differing beliefs and opinions are loons? Interesting.

I look forward to the reaction when the NFL decides to move the Super Bowl from Arizona because of this law.

Carp said:

I look forward to the reaction when the NFL decides to move the Super Bowl from Arizona because of this law.

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Isn't the next one there? Might not be enough time.

NoDak said:

Isn't the next one there? Might not be enough time.

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They are already talking about it...you know Jerry eagerly awaits the NFLs call.

Carp said:

I look forward to the reaction when the NFL decides to move the Super Bowl from Arizona because of this law.

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It's not a law. It's a proposed bill.

Quote from one of our pastors on this subject -

Arizona, I pray governor vetoes that bill. Hate the sin, love the sinner. Agape love never fails.

Jiggyfly said:

What trend?

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The trend of gay people suing small businesses who refuse to cater to their lifestyle. Like the case in Colorado where a wedding cake shop would not make a cake featuring two grooms. They got sued.

The wedding cake shop shouldn't have to make such a cake if they don't want to.

Courts are only reacting to these new laws springing up they are not going out of there way to force anything, these types of laws are just more republican grandstanding, what public good is this serving and what percentage of religious people really want this.

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You are misinformed.

This law was proposed to preempt gay people from having a cause of action against a small business for refusing to cater to them.... thus saving the businesses from having to invest in attorneys fees to defend themselves for acting according to their consciences.

This is the epitome of catering to the loons.

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It is no such thing, gay people suing small businesses like that could be a very real problem going forward. You could litigate them out of business if you get an overzealous fascist plaintiff attorney trying to make a name for himself, even if a court were to decide that the small business does not have the obligation to specifically cater to them.

The court's job is to interpret the law. The law in Arizona may now say "there is no recognizable lawsuit against a small business for discrimination on the basis of homosexuality due to a small business not catering to their specific lifestyle."

Since homosexuality isn't a federally protected class, Arizona will have done the right thing by passing this law.

Some bigots might use it as a shield.... other honest religious people, however, need it to protect their consciences.

And since last I checked this was a free country, I guess gay people will have to find a non-religious bakery to get their cakes from. Oh, the horror.

L.T. Fan said:

People who have differing beliefs and opinions are loons? Interesting.

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Yeah that's exactly what I was saying.