QB Controversy Thread...

Cowboysrock55

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I think the difference with them is they were all system QBs. Once they all played in a pro style offense as pocket passers, they fell apart. Hell, our current backup QB looked salvageable in Chip Kelly's offense.
Yeah the offense Dallas runs isn't exactly known for making QBs appear better then they really are.
 

Cotton

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I think the difference with them is they were all system QBs. Once they all played in a pro style offense as pocket passers, they fell apart. Hell, our current backup QB looked salvageable in Chip Kelly's offense.
That, too.
 

Jiggyfly

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But the question is, is that enough against a very good defense or an offensive opponent that can force us to need to score in the mid to upper 30s?

I heard a stat on the radio that Dak is 1 for 8 on throws beyond 20 yards. I love Dak and he's been great but we have to put how we feel about him in context, and that context is that we all think he's been great based upon him being a rookie. Not being able to get the ball further downfield restricts what you can do. We've been getting away with it because Dak has been fantastic otherwise and because we haven't had a team put that onus on us yet. But it's the kind of thing that can catch up to you.

If Romo was 1 for 8 on throws beyond 20 yards we'd expect way better than that.

Romo is still the better QB right now until proven otherwise.
That 1-20 is an empty stat because it has not really affected scoring.

That seems to be the stat of the moment when talking about Dak but how has it affected the ability to score points and win games.

Andy Reed and whoever is OC for Brady seem to win plenty without the long pass being a staple of the offense.

Offensive efficiency and points are more important than any long passing stat.
 

Cotton

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That 1-20 is an empty stat because it has not really affected scoring.

That seems to be the stat of the moment when talking about Dak but how has it affected the ability to score points and win games.

Andy Reed and whoever is OC for Brady seem to win plenty without the long pass being a staple of the offense.

Offensive efficiency and points are more important than any long passing stat.
It's literally the only thing that can be pointed to as a fault for the guy. There is some stretch-justification going on to try and make it make sense to put Romo back in when he's healthy.
 

data

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None of them looked nearly as poised in the pocket as Dak. In fact, 2 of them chose to run first and pass second. That's why they were so easy to figure out and stop.
I think the difference with them is they were all system QBs. Once they all played in a pro style offense as pocket passers, they fell apart. Hell, our current backup QB looked salvageable in Chip Kelly's offense.
Cool, cool...Just the pessimist in me thinking no way did Jerruh backdoor it into another franchise QB and the bottom will fall out somehow.
 
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Deuce

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Cool, cool...Just the pessimist in me thinking no way did Jerruh backdoor it into another franchise QB and the bottom will fall out somehow.
I get it, and I had chalked Dak up to being a system QB that needed a lot of development before the season as well. Someone, he's transitioned quickly into working well from under center.
 

data

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It's literally the only thing that can be pointed to as a fault for the guy. There is some stretch-justification going on to try and make it make sense to put Romo back in when he's healthy.
Yeah, it's tail-wagging-dog. Consistently getting 1st downs is the point. 20+ yard passes is a means to stretch the defense to help get consistent 1st downs, but shouldn't be what we strive for.

On top of that, getting red zone TDs-not-FGs is the higher point. After the NYG game, we've been rock solid.

Anyway, possibly the first 4 games teams played off our rookie QB, challenging Dak to put efficient drives together, bend-don't-break style. We'll see if Cincy and GB wise-up, so to speak, and play more crowded defense inside 20 yards from LOS.

The 49ers seemed to take gameplan against Beasely and Dak responded with Brice Butler & Zeke getting 5 ypc.
 

UncleMilti

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That 1-20 is an empty stat because it has not really affected scoring.

That seems to be the stat of the moment when talking about Dak but how has it affected the ability to score points and win games.

Andy Reed and whoever is OC for Brady seem to win plenty without the long pass being a staple of the offense.

Offensive efficiency and points are more important than any long passing stat.
:lol

That's a great point conveniently forgotten by a lot of people. NE went to a SB on a dink and dunk offense with no RB to speak of. Obviously, we don't have Brady, but its not much different than the WC offense the Niners feasted on in the 90's.

And lets not pretend that Garretts offensive "philosophy" is one that takes shots downfield 4-5 times a game. I absolutely despise Garretts offense and the fucking weird routes he has the WR run.

Norv Turner, with Sam Bradford at the helm went up top 4 times last night. No, 2 of them weren't completed, but it backed the Giants safeties up and freed up the underneath routes and the running game.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Big plays are great but ultimately it comes down to efficiency. I think we can all agree that we would prefer Dak to be 2 for 2 passing for 20 yards (completing 2 10 yard passes) as opposed to 1 for 2 passing for 20 yards. If your QB is completing a high percentage of his throws he is more likely to keep moving the sticks.

I could see the concern if Dak was throwing screens and there was a bunch of RAC but that isn't the case in Dallas.
 

townsend

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The fact that we're dominating the league in time of possession, # of first downs, 3rd and long conversions, and Dak has yet to throw an interception makes the beyond 20 yards statistic less important. Long plays are a gamble, that a consistent offense like this one is not dependent on.
 

UncleMilti

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Big plays are great but ultimately it comes down to efficiency. I think we can all agree that we would prefer Dak to be 2 for 2 passing for 20 yards (completing 2 10 yard passes) as opposed to 1 for 2 passing for 20 yards. If your QB is completing a high percentage of his throws he is more likely to keep moving the sticks.

I could see the concern if Dak was throwing screens and there was a bunch of RAC but that isn't the case in Dallas.
No its definitely not that shit we saw with Weeden and Cassell.
 

dallen

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Dak has a great YPA average. Some people are overly concerned with deep passes
 

Rev

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I think what is being overlooked here is how successful Elliot has been with everything close to LOS because of no deep threat. Truly amazing.
 

Genghis Khan

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The majority of you seem to be missing the point.

We've been fine so far doing things this way. Nobody is saying otherwise.

But let's say, for instance Green Bay hangs 38 on our defense. Can Dak score 39? That might require him to throw downfield way more.

You people act like he's proven everything there is to prove after 4 whole games.

He's definitely playing Cincinnati and likely GB. Let's see how 2 of his bigger tests go. I suspect he'll do well but let's see.
 

Joe Fan

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Cool, cool...Just the pessimist in me thinking no way did Jerruh backdoor it into another franchise QB and the bottom will fall out somehow.
I totally get it. Trust me I do. In all honesty it's hard not to think that way given Jerruh's history.

Heck, there's a part of me that thinks had we drafted Wentz or Lynch that we'd end up fucking it up and that they'd become the next Ryan Leaf as well.

I realize the recent history and success with Kaep and RG3 and how quickly they showed their warts after being one or two year wonders and how it might compare with Dak's success.

If Dak was running a gimmick offense like they did or showed his inability to read defenses or look to run first and throw second then I would totally agree that we should tap the breaks big time.

But that doesn't appear to be the case at all.

I agree that there's room for improvement with him such as when he puts a bit too much on the ball and it sails out over the receivers heads but overall I'm not sure there is a QB in this league that doesn't have one get away from him from time to time.

I'd also love to see him air it out a bit more like we saw in preseason. I'm not sure why those plays haven't been called yet and am wondering if we're saving it for some of the tougher D's that we'll be facing.

For all the Wentz praise that has been going around, and rightfully so, he has a higher percentage of short passes (many of which behind the LOS) than Dak does. So it's not entirely accurate that he slings the ball down the field as compared to Dak.

However, his command of the offense and poise is completely unmatched especially given the fact that he's a rookie.

You're right, Jerruh doesn't deserve to have another franchise QB fall into his lap given all the damage he's done to the team and poor personnel and player decisions that he's made over the years. However, maybe it's a bone being thrown to the fans for once who has put up with his shit. Who knows?

I for one am enjoying the ride and am finally enjoying the games again which is something I haven't been able to say in quite some time.
 

E_D_Guapo

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That's a very big if.
You know what else is a very big if: If Tony Romo is good when he comes back. He barely had any work last offseason coming off of the back surgeries. Then he missed most of the season with injuries. Again this offseason they were extra cautious with him and gave him a lot of off days from practices during camp. And how many preseason snaps did he have? By the time he comes back he will have played very little meaningful football for what amounts to nearly two years.

I just don't see how it can be expected that he is going to come in and be sharp. Look at what happened when he came back against Carolina last year. Granted, that was a really good D, but Romo was dreadful.

Expecting him to step right back in and be 2014 Tony Romo is unrealistic, IMO. Will they give him that chance? Sure. Should they? Maybe. If Prescott is somehow able to be very instrumental in beating both Cincy and Green Bay over the next couple of weeks though? It is doubtful that he will but will it because he didn't play well enough? Maybe, maybe not.

It is just going to be very risky to hand the team back over to an aging, oft-injured QB who is absolutely going to be rusty due to lack of game snaps over the past couple of years. It has the potential to really kill any momentum the team has been able to build.

If given the choice between 2014 Romo and 2016 Dak I take 2014 Romo, hands down. I am just very skeptical that we are going to see that guy, at least initially. Hard to imagine it doesn't take him a few games to get back up to speed. Can they afford to potentially lose a couple of those games because of shaky QB play? No. And that is completely leaving out the possibility of re-injury, which is always a serious risk at this point.
 
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Genghis Khan

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Some of you are way overstating the difficulty Romo will have returning to form once healthy, and way understating how much Dak has to learn.

The biggest question mark is romo's ability to stay healthy. Not whether he can be effective anymore.
 

E_D_Guapo

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Some of you are way overstating the difficulty Romo will have returning to form once healthy, and way understating how much Dak has to learn.

The biggest question mark is romo's ability to stay healthy. Not whether he can be effective anymore.
And I think you are underestimating the potential cumulative effects of these back injuries as well as the tremendous amount of practice/game time he has missed the past two seasons. I don't think he is completely done as a starting caliber QB, but I also don't think he is just going to step in and be good right away. He may be a veteran even veterans need work. I am just not expecting good things out of the gate. We will likely get the chance to see fairly soon I guess,
 
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