Kiper's 2017 Big Boards/Rankings

Jiggyfly

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Jaylon Smith isn't any bigger of a question mark then a late first round pick at LBer going into next season. And Sean Lee won't be hitting the bench. So now you've just used a first round pick on a guy to sit behind those two. That seems pretty dumb to me. That's why the nickle matters. Because your third LBer doesn't even play half the snaps.
WOW, you really do have your head in the sand concerning Smith.

Nobody knows if he will regain full use of his foot, that statement is just absurd.

And just because you do not want to jinx Lee doesn't make his age and injury history any different.

And he will have a cap hit of 8.5 million in 2018, do you see him being worth that in another year?

And I have no clue why you keep bringing up the nickel like that is not in need of talent upgrade.
 

Jiggyfly

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LB is a bigger need than WR because we need play makers on defense one way or another. I wouldn't hesitate to take a guy like Davis at 30 or what have you if he is the BPA because we need another outside/vertical threat aside from Dez, but the fact remains that a rookie WR would be our 4th option in the passing game behind Dez, Beasley and Witten.

Of course Witten is on his way out and Dez will be 29 next year, that's why I would have no problem taking a WR.

In a theoretical situation where we have an evenly ranked LB and an evenly ranked WR, I'd go LB just because of the bigger need in general on that side of the ball. Lee will be 31 next year and it'd be nice if he didn't have to play 100% of the snaps, which could extend his career. Smith is a huge question mark and the rest is just depth. The impact of true three-down LB's is underrated, and while we may have a pair in Lee/Smith, they both come with significant question marks and it sure would be nice to not be forced into playing Lee on literally every snap.

It's true that we are often in nickel/dime and only have 2 LB's on the field, which is why I'd also be ok with taking a jumbo-safety type like a Deone Bucannon or Su'a Cravens in the 2nd-4th area.

To be clear, neither position is a massive need and if we don't take one in the first 3 rounds I'd be fine with it (assuming we are actually taking useful positions, not dicking around with TE's), but I could easily argue that taking either a WR or a LB in the 1st provides value.
I agree with you on all of this.

I just think that the talent level drops significantly from top of the 1st wr talent to bottom of the 1st guys.

I think the guy you can get at 25-30 you can get throughout the 2nd.

I think bottom of the 1st is the sweet spot to get good 3 down LB with some upside, good guys seem to fall in that range regularly.
 

Cowboysrock55

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WOW, you really do have your head in the sand concerning Smith.

Nobody knows if he will regain full use of his foot, that statement is just absurd.

And just because you do not want to jinx Lee doesn't make his age and injury history any different.

And he will have a cap hit of 8.5 million in 2018, do you see him being worth that in another year?

And I have no clue why you keep bringing up the nickel like that is not in need of talent upgrade.
And yet Lee was healthy almost all of last year and has been all of this year. So while you theorize his injury problems are getting worse, reality says something totally different.

And frankly you don't know anything about Jaylon Smith or his injury. You can pretend you do, but you're really clueless about it. Nothing has indicated a set back or any reason to believe he won't be ready for next year. Hell the Cowboys have gone as far as protecting the possibility that he could play this year. Between that and all the reports of his improvement, I'll trust that over the "sky is falling" mentality you seem to have with Jaylon. Plus he is a legitimate top 5 talent. Which means talentwise, he is less of a risk then any healthy rookie we could get in the first round of this draft. But feel free to draft a bench player for 2017 because you view a need in 2018. All things even, I'll take someone who starts in 2017. It's common sense.
 

Jiggyfly

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The ideal situation is DE in the first. I think that would all be our preference. If not that I'd be all for a safety or hell even a corner capable of picking off a pass or two. But beyomd that LBer is a position we don't need to address at all. Certainly wouldn't pass on an elite guy, but I'm not going out of my way for a LBer.

WR will need to be adressed. That can either be through the draft or it can be in free agency. But right now Williams and Butler are free agents and I'm not sure we resign either.
What?

Come on you seriously cannot believe that?
 

Jiggyfly

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And yet Lee was healthy almost all of last year and has been all of this year. So while you theorize his injury problems are getting worse, reality says something totally different.

And frankly you don't know anything about Jaylon Smith or his injury. You can pretend you do, but you're really clueless about it. Nothing has indicated a set back or any reason to believe he won't be ready for next year. Hell the Cowboys have gone as far as protecting the possibility that he could play this year. Between that and all the reports of his improvement, I'll trust that over the "sky is falling" mentality you seem to have with Jaylon. Plus he is a legitimate top 5 talent. Which means talentwise, he is less of a risk then any healthy rookie we could get in the first round of this draft. But feel free to draft a bench player for 2017 because you view a need in 2018. All things even, I'll take someone who starts in 2017. It's common sense.
They just reported that he still cannot lift his foot on his own and that's almost a year since he was injured, how can anybody with any sense think he should be counted on at this point.

Lee is turning 31 and is visibly slowing down yet you see no need to draft his replacement?

You are right there needs to be some common sense used around here.

And the funny part is you think a late 1st round receiver comes in and starts automatically.

Take a look at the names drafted in that range and tell why they should be slam dunks over a LB.
 

Jiggyfly

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Top 5 talent, probowler, and 2 recent fourth round picks. Yeah, we could ignore it entirely without an issue.
Top 5 talent that still cannot lift his foot.

Why are you ignoring that?

as for the 2 4th round picks, you are either trolling or have no clue what type of talent a top notch defense needs.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Top 5 talent that still cannot lift his foot.

Why are you ignoring that?

as for the 2 4th round picks, you are either trolling or have no clue what type of talent a top notch defense needs.
You need solid good LBers which we have a few of. Not even including Jaylon. But by draft time I expect Jaylon to be at full go, so it won't even be an issue by then.

Can you say that about WR next year? Who are you going to start, Vince Mayle?
 

Cowboysrock55

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And the funny part is you think a late 1st round receiver comes in and starts automatically.

Take a look at the names drafted in that range and tell why they should be slam dunks over a LB.
We are talking about similar talent level. I'd take a LBer over a WR if he is more talented. But in terms of need. Butler and Williams are free agents and a first round WR sure as shit starts over Mayle and Whitehead.
 

L.T. Fan

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We are talking about similar talent level. I'd take a LBer over a WR if he is more talented. But in terms of need. Butler and Williams are free agents and a first round WR sure as shit starts over Mayle and Whitehead.
It's funny just a few days ago Jiggy was scolding me for declaring that Smith was still very questionable as to whether he was going to make a recovery. Now he is scolding you for having too much confidence in his recovery. Go figure.
 

Jiggyfly

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You need solid good LBers which we have a few of. Not even including Jaylon. But by draft time I expect Jaylon to be at full go, so it won't even be an issue by then.

Can you say that about WR next year? Who are you going to start, Vince Mayle?
There are Butler and Williams types throughout FA and later in the draft, remember after all Williams was a 3rd round pick.
 

Jiggyfly

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It's funny just a few days ago Jiggy was scolding me for declaring that Smith was still very questionable as to whether he was going to make a recovery. Now he is scolding you for having too much confidence in his recovery. Go figure.
I never "scolded" you I just got tired of you rushing into the thread saying the same thing over and over.

I am not scolding CRock we are having a discussion, everybody is not as thinned skinned as you and do not look at these things as "scoldings".

As for Smith once more information became available I changed my thinking, I that is strange to you because it is something you are incapable of.
 

L.T. Fan

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I never "scolded" you I just got tired of you rushing into the thread saying the same thing over and over.

I am not scolding CRock we are having a discussion, everybody is not as thinned skinned as you and do not look at these things as "scoldings".

As for Smith once more information became available I changed my thinking, I that is strange to you because it is something you are incapable of.
:laff
 

boozeman

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It's funny just a few days ago Jiggy was scolding me for declaring that Smith was still very questionable as to whether he was going to make a recovery. Now he is scolding you for having too much confidence in his recovery. Go figure.
:lol
 

Cowboysrock55

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There are Butler and Williams types throughout FA and later in the draft, remember after all Williams was a 3rd round pick.
You're talking about addressing a need in free agency. We could do that about any need and make it less of a need.

And LBers are found all throughout the draft who end up great. So I'm not really sure where you are going with that.
 

VA Cowboy

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Looked at mocks for the first time today. No real consensus. Some had us taking WR: Davis/Ross, while others had DE like Harris.

What was interesting is most of Christian McCaffrey to the Pats. That would be intriguing. He'd be a perfect fit for them.
 

boozeman

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1/12/17

Big Board

1. *Myles Garrett DE Texas A&M
2. Jonathan Allen DE Alabama
3. *Leonard Fournette RB LSU
4. Reuben Foster ILB Alabama
5. *Dalvin Cook RB Florida St.

6. *Jamal Adams S LSU
7. **Solomon Thomas DE Stanford
8. **Jabrill Peppers S Michigan
9. *Mike Williams WR Clemson
10. **Marshon Lattimore CB Ohio St.

11. Takkarist McKinley DE UCLA
12. *Cam Robinson T Alabama
13. Tim Williams OLB Alabama
14. **Malik Hooker S Ohio St.
15. *Christian McCaffrey RB Stanford

16. *Mitch Trubisky QB North Carolina
17. *Teez Tabor CB Florida
18. *Taco Charlton DE Michigan
19. Jarrad Davis LB Florida
20. *Malik McDowell DT Michigan St.

21. *Derek Barnett DE Tennessee
22. *Charles Harris DE Missouri
23. *Quincy Wilson CB Florida
24. **Marlon Humphrey CB Alabama
25. *Ryan Ramczyk T Wisconsin


Top 10 by Position

Quarterbacks
1. *Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
2. **DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
3. *Deshaun Watson, Clemson
4. *Patrick Mahomes, Texas Tech
5. *Brad Kaaya, Miami (Fla.)
6.*Jerod Evans, Virginia Tech
7. Nathan Peterman, Pittsburgh
8. Chad Kelly, Mississippi
9. C.J. Beathard, Iowa
10. Antonio Pipkin, Tiffin

Running backs
1. *Leonard Fournette, LSU
2. *Dalvin Cook, Florida State
3. *Christian McCaffrey, Stanford
4. *D'Onta Foreman, Texas
5. **Joe Mixon, Oklahoma
6. Matthew Dayes, NC State
7. *Samaje Perine, Oklahoma
8. Jamaal Williams, BYU
9. *James Conner, Pittsburgh
10. Corey Clement, Wisconsin

Fullbacks
1. Sam Rogers, Virginia Tech
2. Shane Smith, San Jose State
3. Nate Iese, UCLA
4. Anthony Firkser, Harvard
5. Freddie Stevenson, Florida State
6. Tyler McCloskey, Houston
7. Joe Bacci, Central Michigan
8. Prescott Line, Michigan State
9. Algernon Brown, BYU
10. Jaymar Parrish, Pitt

Wide receivers
1. *Mike Williams, Clemson
2. Corey Davis, Western Michigan
3. *John Ross, Washington
4. *Curtis Samuel, Ohio State
5. *JuJu Smith-Schuster, USC
6. *Carlos Henderson, Louisiana Tech
7. *Isaiah Ford, Virginia Tech
8. Dede Westbrook, Oklahoma
9. Cooper Kupp, Eastern Washington
10. Taywan Taylor, Western Kentucky

Tight ends
1. O.J. Howard, Alabama
2. *Bucky Hodges, Virginia Tech
3. Jake Butt, Michigan
4. **David Njoku, Miami (Fla.)
5. Jordan Leggett, Clemson
6. Cole Hikutini, Louisville
7. Gerald Everett, South Alabama
8. Pharaoh Brown, Oregon
9. Evan Engram, Mississippi
10. Jeremy Sprinkle, Arkansas

Offensive tackles
1. *Cam Robinson, Alabama
2. *Ryan Ramczyk, Wisconsin
3. *Garett Bolles, Utah
4. Dion Dawkins, Temple
5. *Roderick Johnson, Florida State
6. Taylor Moton, Western Michigan
7. Antonio Garcia, Troy
8. Zach Banner, USC
9. Conor McDermott, UCLA
10. Justin Senior, Mississippi State

Offensive guards
1. Forrest Lamp, Western Kentucky
2. Dan Feeney, Indiana
3. Dorian Johnson, Pittsburgh
4. Nico Siragusa, San Diego State
5. *Damien Mama, USC
6. Danny Isidora, Miami (Fla.)
7. Isaac Asiata, Utah
8. Greg Pyke, Georgia
9. Jessamen Dunker, Tennessee State
10. Jordan Morgan, Kutztown

Centers
1. Ethan Pocic, LSU
2. Pat Elflein, Ohio State
3. Tyler Orlosky, West Virginia
4. Jon Toth, Kentucky
5. Cameron Tom, Southern Mississippi
6. Chase Roullier, Wyoming
7. Kyle Fuller, Baylor
8. Jay Guillermo, Clemson
9. Lucas Crowley, North Carolina
10. Riley Sorenson, Washington State

Defensive ends
1. *Myles Garrett, Texas A&M
2. Jonathan Allen, Alabama
3. **Solomon Thomas, Stanford
4. Taco Charlton, Michigan
5. *Derek Barnett, Tennessee
6. *Charles Harris, Missouri
7. Jordan Willis, Kansas State
8. *Carl Lawson, Auburn
9. Chris Wormley, Michigan
10. DeMarcus Walker, Florida State

Defensive tackles
1. *Malik McDowell, Michigan State
2. *Caleb Brantley, Florida
3. Carlos Watkins, Clemson
4. *Elijah Qualls, Washington
5. Jaleel Johnson, Iowa
6. *Charles Walker, Oklahoma
7. Dalvin Tomlinson, Alabama
8. Ryan Glasgow, Michigan
9. *Davon Godchaux, LSU
10. Montravius Adams, Auburn

Inside linebackers
1. Reuben Foster, Alabama
2. *Raekwon McMillan, Ohio State
3. *Zach Cunningham, Vanderbilt
4. *Anthony Walker, Northwestern
5. Kendell Beckwith, LSU
6. Duke Riley, LSU
7. Marquel Lee, Wake Forest
8. Ben Gedeon, Michigan
9. Keith Kelsey, Louisville
10. Hardy Nickerson, Illinois

Outside linebackers
1. Takkarist McKinley, UCLA
2. Tim Williams, Alabama
3. Jarrad Davis, Florida
4. Ryan Anderson, Alabama
5. Haason Reddick, Temple
6.*T.J. Watt, Wisconsin
7. Tyus Bowser, Houston
8. Vince Biegel, Wisconsin
9. Ejuan Price, Pittsburgh
10. Devonte Fields, Louisville

Cornerbacks
1. **Marshon Lattimore, Ohio State
2. *Teez Tabor, CB, Florida
3. *Quincy Wilson, Florida
4. **Marlon Humphrey, Alabama
5. Cordrea Tankersley, Clemson
6. *Sidney Jones, Washington
7. Tre'Davious White, LSU
8. Jourdan Lewis, Michigan
9. Desmond King, Iowa
10. *Gareon Conley, Ohio State

Safeties
1. *Jamal Adams, LSU
2. **Jabrill Peppers, Michigan
3. **Malik Hooker, Ohio State
4. *Budda Baker, Washington
5. *Marcus Williams, Utah
6. *Josh Jones, NC State
7. Marcus Maye, Florida
8. Eddie Jackson, Alabama
9. Justin Evans, Texas A&M
10. Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut

Kickers and punters
1. Zane Gonzalez, Arizona State (kicker)
2. Austin Rehkow, Idaho (kicker and punter)
3. Jake Elliott, Memphis (kicker)
4. Justin Vogel, Miami (Fla.) (punter)
5. Toby Baker, Arkansas (punter)
6. Cameron Johnston, Ohio State (punter)
7. Younghoe Koo, Georgia Southern (kicker)
8. Kenny Allen, Michigan (kicker and punter)
9. Hayden Hunt, Colorado State (punter)
10. Harrison Butker, Georgia Tech (kicker)
 

1bigfan13

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I'll be interested in see what the draft scouts have to say about Dede Westbrook.

He's too small to be a #1 WR but I think he has potential to be used as an all around weapon like Kansas City's Tyreke Hill.

Aside from lining up at wideout, he returned kickoffs and punts and ran reverses and jet-sweeps at Oklahoma.

I think he's more quick than fast which is an excellent trait for a return man.

The one drawback about Westbrook is has some off the field domestic violence issues in his past as well. Probably wouldn't be wise for the Cowboys to draft him but I think he'll be an interesting gadget player for some team.
 
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boozeman

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The one drawback about Westbrook is has some off the field domestic violence issues in his past as well. Probably wouldn't be wise for the Cowboys to draft him but I think he'll be an interesting gadget player for some team.
I don't think they will have much to say about his play, it speaks for itself. They will pound him on the domestic violence, no doubt. I do think he is a bit of coward for skipping out on the Senior Bowl to dodge the questions though.
 
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