Machota: With 'Senator' Byron Jones, Cowboys drafted more than just a workout warrior

NoDak

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I understand this take since it appears like FS's do just about everything, but they don't have man coverage on a single WR like a CB would and so are looking back in run support. They may line up 15-20 yards back but then they fly to the football on every play.

Think about every play-action pass you ever saw, the intent is to draw the safeties, not CB's. Because of their position on the field, they can close in on any play. This means a FS will have 1.5 to double the tackles of a CB.

And if their front seven sucks, especially in the middle, they will have even more tackles and definitely take a beating.

I think if we had a stronger front seven, Jones could play FS.

Regardless of what I think, if he does indeed play FS, then they should commit to him at FS for this entire season and not move him around.
A FS's first priority is the pass. Yeah, they'll help in run support once the ball is handed off. But that doesn't change the fact that they are the defenses last line of defense. The ones playing over the top on the deep pass. That's why you'll see a safety coming out of nowhere to pick off a pass or lay a big hit. They don't do that if they're thinking run first. If they did, they'd always be in a trail position.

And the play action's main intent is to draw the linebackers, not the safeties. So they'll fill the running lanes and clear the zones behind the linebackers, opening the underneath for the WRs. Yeah, if you get a safety or corner peeking on play action, a double move can go for a deep score. Still doesn't mean the main object of the PA is to suck the safeties, tho.
 

Cotton

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Point: Cowboys’ Corners Needs Byron Jones’ Help Far More Than Their Safeties
Monday, June 01, 2015 5:03 PM CDT

By David Helman
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer

I think I’m the only person following this Cowboys team with any faith in Barry Church and J.J. Wilcox to man the all-important safety position this season – or in subsequent seasons.

That’s the only conclusion I can come to as I hear the continued suggestions that Byron Jones needs to work primarily at safety as he advances in his rookie season. Every step of the way, from the pre-draft process to the onset of training camp, there’s been a steady call for an upgrade at the position – and some steady disagreement from me.
It’s true that it hasn’t exactly been a position of strength in recent years. Church has been an exemplary box safety, with 232 tackles in the last two seasons, but he hasn’t shown a strong penchant for takeaways. Wilcox nabbed three picks and recovered two fumbles in 2014, but his understanding of angles and pursuit need improvement – as anyone who watched the season-ending loss to Green Bay can attest.

That said, I’ve seen enough to feel optimistic about their prospects going forward. I’ve certainly seen enough that I don’t need to the No. 27 overall pick to deal with a position switch.

Jones played safety for the first two years of his college career, but he built the bulk of his NFL resume playing corner. He notched more interceptions and more pass breakups in his two years at corner than his two years at safety. On top of that, I think his build suits him better to play corner, as opposed to the incredibly physical nature of Church and Wilcox’s styles.

Most importantly is the standing situation at both positions. For all their faults, we’ve seen Church and Wilcox man the helm on a playoff run. Factor in Wilcox’s continued development at a position he’s played for just three years, and I think the Cowboys have enough.

Cornerback is still a position that makes me nervous, even with all the work this team has done to fix it. They added Jones and Corey White in the past two months, and they secured Orlando Scandrick’s services for the foreseeable future. With June 1 having come and gone with no news, it also looks like Brandon Carr is on board for 2015.

I still think Jones has a great chance to upgrade that spot one way or another – whether it’s outside or in the slot. Carr came on strong to end the 2014 campaign, but he’s had his struggles the past two years, and White is no guarantee to make the team. Morris Claiborne appears to be rehabbing well from his patellar tendon injury, but it’d be a mistake to count on him right away.

That gives Jones a chance to earn a job as one of the top three corners right away – and in the modern NFL, it’s a given that your top three corners can expect to play a lot of snaps. Whether as a nickelback or an outside corner, Jones has the athleticism and the ball skills to make an immediate difference.

I feel like a broken record, but I simply don’t feel like it’s time to worry about the safeties. Church and Wilcox aren’t top-tier players, but they’re certainly not holding this defense back. We can have this conversation again down the road, but for the time being I’d let my first-round pick make an impact at his primary position.
 

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Counterpoint: When The Dust Settles, Byron Jones Could Be Dynamic Safety
Monday, June 01, 2015 5:03 PM CDT

By Nick Eatman
DallasCowboys.com Staff Writer

IRVING, Texas - If I heard it once on the practice fields one summer afternoon in 2000, I’ve heard it about 100 times since then, but I can still recall Mike Zimmer’s trademark line when asked about the depth at cornerback.

“You can never have too many good corners.”

I would imagine he got asked that question in 2000 after the team drafted cornerbacks with three out of its five overall picks that year. Turns out, other than a serviceable Mario Edwards, none of them were really in the “good” category.
But his point was simple – get these guys in here and let them all compete because you can never have enough capable guys to cover receivers.
So I understand and even agree with the logic. But still, I think Byron Jones should end up playing safety when the dust settles.

I qualify it that way because sometimes you end up playing a certain position out of necessity. Even Flozell Adams started out his career at guard before becoming a five-time Pro Bowl left tackle. And sticking to the position, Ronnie Lott had to play corner before it was suggested he play safety instead.

So maybe Jones will need to play safety right now. A lot of that will depend on the health and production of Morris Claiborne.

But I still think, if all things are equal, Jones will be a better player at safety.

That’s a little bit hard to dissect right now because we’ve never seen him attack the ball and hit anyone. We don’t know what kind of toughness he has. Everything we’ve seen from his college tape suggests he is physical. But then again, taking on Marshawn Lynch in the open field isn’t something he’s had much practice with. I guess you could say the same for him covering a guy like Julio Jones or Dez Bryant.

But when I see Jones’ skill-set, I see a safety. Record-setting broad jumps and jaw-dropping vertical leaps just seem like better traits for a safety.

I know cornerbacks have to jump with receivers too, but when I think of a guy who can broad jump more than 12 feet, and translate it over to football, I see a safety cheating over to a sideline post pattern and jumping into the picture at the last minute.

Plus, safeties have to be aware of everything. There aren’t many safeties who aren’t smart players. Check that, there’re probably not any good safeties who aren’t smart players.

We know Byron Jones is a smart kid, although that doesn’t always mean he’ll be a smart player. But, I think he will.

He’s got good height, a frame that can put on good weight, and he can probably do all of that and maintain his speed and leaping ability. Combine that with his awareness skills and you could have a really dynamic safety.
I know the Cowboys have J.J. Wilcox, and right now, he’s good enough with this defense. But let’s be honest, Wilcox was on the wrong end of a game-changing play in Green Bay that resulted in a key touchdown for the Packers in the third quarter. Wilcox has made a few other good players in some big wins, but overall, it’s a position that could be upgraded.

And I’m not saying Wilcox wouldn’t slide over eventually to strong safety. That’s actually where I think he’s a better fit. And no, I’m not talking about replacing Church, either. I’m just talking about where guys would fit the best.

Whether it’s right now, later this year or two years from now, I think Byron Jones will end up being not only a safety for this team, but a really good one.
 

L.T. Fan

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End the discussion.

You don't put this guy at what position group currently needs him more anyway.

You put him where he's the better player.
But noone knows yet if he will be a better player at Safety. That's an assumption.
 

boozeman

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End the discussion.

You don't put this guy at what position group currently needs him more anyway.

You put him where he's the better player.
That is probably CB right now versus FS. You do not see a lot of teams doing that with this kind of player being a year or two removed from a position. He last played FS in 2012. They will try him at CB, I would hope.

Either way, make up your mind now, put him where you want him and leave him there. None of this bouncing around crap.
 

L.T. Fan

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Please see post #38.
What booze said. It's hard to advocate something if one is going t put a maybe hedge with it. Your theme is Jones should be placed in the FS position. Then later you hedge your bet with a "caveat".
 

ravidubey

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If I'm not mistaken Free Safety used to be called a rover back. The went wherever the ball went.
And 35-55 percent of the time the ball went to a run in 2014. The FS has to read that first so he can put himself in position to stop it. The CB only cares if it's a stretch to his side, so he has plenty of time to react.

Expect the number of runs to climb with the infusion of rookie backs.
 

ravidubey

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A FS's first priority is the pass. Yeah, they'll help in run support once the ball is handed off.
Agreed the pass is their highest priority. I meant the run is their first read, and they dedicate much more time to stopping the run than a CB.

They position themselves pre snap 10-15 yards back so they are not too far back to cover a run.
 

Smitty

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What booze said. It's hard to advocate something if one is going t put a maybe hedge with it. Your theme is Jones should be placed in the FS position. Then later you hedge your bet with a "caveat".
I'm admitting what I don't know. I am not unequivocally saying that I project Jones to be an elite safety versus an average corner.

We've been told he can play both and it has been implied that he can do both equally. If that's the case, he should be at FS, and it shouldn't even be much of a debate (that is where the arguments I have made in this thread take over). If he's significantly better at corner, I will grant that he should be at corner then.

What I personally suspect is that given his skill set and unique athleticism in terms of jumping and playing the ball in front of him, he's a better bet to excel at safety versus being merely a solid corner.
 
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NoDak

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Agreed the pass is their highest priority. I meant the run is their first read, and they dedicate much more time to stopping the run than a CB.

They position themselves pre snap 10-15 yards back so they are not too far back to cover a run.
Yeah I disagree with that, too. The run is NOT their first read. Like I said, if it was then they'd be coming up to fill and would then be in a trail position. They don't, so they're not.

The FS is a pass defense first position. That doesn't mean that they won't help in the run game. Just like a blocking TE's main objective is to block. Doesn't mean he won't catch an occasional pass.
 

Cotton

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What booze said. It's hard to advocate something if one is going t put a maybe hedge with it. Your theme is Jones should be placed in the FS position. Then later you hedge your bet with a "caveat".
He's a lawyer. You expected something different?
 

Cowboysrock55

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What I personally suspect is that given his skill set and unique athleticism in terms of jumping and playing the ball in front of him, he's a better bet to excel at safety versus being merely a solid corner.
Why do you think he can only be a solid corner? Physically he has everything to be an elite corner. I'm not sure I see any reason to believe he would be an elite safety and average corner as opposed to an elite corner.
 

Smitty

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I'm going by predraft reports and grading. He was a 20's level prospect at corner. Sure, you find elite players there, but he was not graded or projected by anyone to be the next Darrelle Revis and his draft stock reflected it. Without knowing anything specifically more about him, I'll take the general consensus.

On be other hand if he can be an Eric Reid level FS (a player taken in the 20s) that is much better for your defense. Which again, I don't know, I'm just saying "if."
 

L.T. Fan

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I'm admitting what I don't know. I am not unequivocally saying that I project Jones to be an elite safety versus an average corner.

We've been told he can play both and it has been implied that he can do both equally. If that's the case, he should be at FS, and it shouldn't even be much of a debate (that is where the arguments I have made in this thread take over). If he's significantly better at corner, I will grant that he should be at corner then.

What I personally suspect is that given his skill set and unique athleticism in terms of jumping and playing the ball in front of him, he's a better bet to excel at safety versus being merely a solid corner.
Okay.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I'm going by predraft reports and grading. He was a 20's level prospect at corner. Sure, you find elite players there, but he was not graded or projected by anyone to be the next Darrelle Revis and his draft stock reflected it. Without knowing anything specifically more about him, I'll take the general consensus.

On be other hand if he can be an Eric Reid level FS (a player taken in the 20s) that is much better for your defense. Which again, I don't know, I'm just saying "if."
If he was graded to be the next Ed Reed he would have been a top 5 pick. Obviously no one was projecting him as an elite FS or CB otherwise he would have gone higher. He does have some elite physical skills though so both things are still possible.
 

ravidubey

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If he was graded to be the next Ed Reed he would have been a top 5 pick. Obviously no one was projecting him as an elite FS or CB otherwise he would have gone higher. He does have some elite physical skills though so both things are still possible.
Ed Reed owes a lot to the defensive front he played with his entire career.
 
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