2016 NFL Draft Early Entries

D

Deuce

Guest
Maybe, maybe not, if Treadwell runs a 4.4 I'll be pretty damn intrigued. His collegiate production is not that far off from Jones and Green despite his sophomore injury and he has similar size/ability.
And has played with shittier QBs.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,463
They're both fantastic run-stuffers but I don't think Robinson or Reed are good enough pass rushers for us to consider in the top 15, neither of them is Dareus. Personally, I'd definitely take Robinson if we were around 10 or so but I just don't think we will. I don't think Reed is a top 15 prospect.
I'm not a huge fan of Reed. I think he is going to be a NT type in the NFL. Robinson really intrigues me though. I think he has some athletic ability and a real ability to push the pocket and cause problems for an offense. Definitely worth watching in the title game. To me he is a guy who can play either DT spot in our defense and excel. That's what I really want. Other potential first round DT's I like are Clark and Rankins. Clark had like 6 sacks on the year and is a big fella at 6'3" 310lbs. Rankins is probably a little more of a play maker. Had 6 sacks and is probably a little closer to a 3 technique but he has the bulk and low center of gravity to hold up at either DT spot.

Honestly, DT might be the best and deepest position in the draft. I hope we legitimately draft someone this year.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
Because having 5 first round offensive lineman is a tremendous waste of resources. Mean's large investment in the player (top 5 pick) with marginal improvement to the actual offensive line.

Also, Kiper for example has Ramsey and Buckner rated higher, so I don't think he is this consensus next best prospect. He isn't an elite prospect. I'd say the difference between him and the other prospects in that tier is negligible to the point where I'd rather get a position that will have a greater impact on the team. Certainly not worth the risk of getting the next Eric Fisher for example.
Ok you saying Tunsil is a marginal improvement is baffling to start and from what I read Tunsil is Kipers number 2 overall prospect and he is a consensus top 4 across the board, any basic research shows that.

You bring up Erick Fisher I can bring up Mike Williams, Ryan Leaf, Claiborne, Arron Curry, Vernon Gholston etc. None of these positions are immune from busting, so I don't know how he is not worth the risk but others are.

The fact that you bring up Ramsey is really funny he is a clear high bust rate type prospect.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
Maybe, maybe not, if Treadwell runs a 4.4 I'll be pretty damn intrigued. His collegiate production is not that far off from Jones and Green despite his sophomore injury and he has similar size/ability.
I don't see him as having nowhere near the physical attributes of Green and Jones, especially Green who was always a athletic freak.

As for 40 times I really discount them unless they showed it in playing speed.
 

Rev

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
19,333
He isn't saying Tunsil is marginal improvement but the position is marginal improvement. The improvement you would get with a top DT for example would improve that position more because our talent there is not as good.


At least that's how I'm reading it and I do agree with that thought. I would rather improve another unit and I think you can with not much difference in value of at all.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
And for the record I am not saying Treadwell cannot turn into great pro receiver but I don't see the physical tools to project that.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
He isn't saying Tunsil is marginal improvement but the position is marginal improvement. The improvement you would get with a top DT for example would improve that position more because our talent there is not as good.


At least that's how I'm reading it and I do agree with that thought. I would rather improve another unit and I think you can with not much difference in value of at all.
I can agree with line of thinking but that same improvement can be made by drafting somebody in the 2nd round IMO.

As a prospect the difference in talent is much greater between him and a 2nd rounder and any of the DT's.

this line of thinking is close to reaching for a need instead of taking the best prospect.

Never mind that Free can fall off at any moment and Green is a huge question mark.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,463
He isn't saying Tunsil is marginal improvement but the position is marginal improvement. The improvement you would get with a top DT for example would improve that position more because our talent there is not as good.


At least that's how I'm reading it and I do agree with that thought. I would rather improve another unit and I think you can with not much difference in value of at all.
That is 100% correct. I'm not trashing Tunsil, I'm just stating that our offensive line won't get more then marginally better with Tunsil. Our defensive line however for example would get tremendously better with a DT.

Oddly enough Kiper doesn't even seem that confident with who is the best OT in this draft. Also, in case Jiggy is curious where Tunsil ranks according to Kiper here it is:


1. *Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State Buckeyes

No change here. He's an explosive pass-rusher who has power and awareness and is consistently disruptive against the run. Bosa has size and versatility that will fit any scheme, as well as the ability to go around blockers or right through them. He's been double- and triple-teamed. When he's one-on-one he wins, period.


2. *Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame Fighting Irish

A rare player at his position who could be drafted this high. Jumps off the screen. It's really hard to pick out serious flaws, aside from a missed tackle here and there and occasional overpursuit. Smith is making a case to be a versatile linebacker you can select safe in knowing he can be plugged in right away. He can be moved around, has good length and can flat-out fly for a linebacker, with sub-4.5 speed.


3. *Jalen Ramsey, CB/S, Florida State Seminoles

Status quo all season after the move back to cornerback. A does-it-all talent who had already started 28 college games heading into this season, I would have rated him the top safety taken in the 2015 draft. But this season he's at cornerback. He has the length, range and exceptional instincts to make plays all over the field; indeed, he has enjoyed an expected smooth transition to corner. He is a truly gifted athlete.


4. DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon Ducks

Love his motor and his production while dealing with a lot of blocking attention. Similar to Bosa in that regard. At 6-foot-7 and 300 pounds, he has an impressive frame and with another year of polish could be a fit in almost any kind of system.



5. *Laremy Tunsil, OT, Ole Miss Rebels

The entire skill set is there. Flexible, quick, powerful and long, I still think he's the best pass-blocker in the draft at this point in my evals, a guy who wouldn't look out of place if he had to play on Sundays this season. Nimble but strong, he has all the traits you look for at that spot.


6.*Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis Tigers

It's pretty neck-and-neck with him and Jared Goff in a merely OK class of quarterbacks. Lynch has good size with room to fill out. He not only has a strong arm but also the ability to get the ball out fast. He has the height to see the whole field quickly without creating space, and he throws well on the move when he needs that space. It sounds trite, but the talent for the position is so clear, and the decision-making has been very good.


7. Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame Fighting Irish

He marries prototypical length with impressive movement skills. He moves well laterally and can flash great hand use. I thought consistency was the problem last year, but he put things together in 2015. He could push to become the top tackle available.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
That is 100% correct. I'm not trashing Tunsil, I'm just stating that our offensive line won't get more then marginally better with Tunsil. Our defensive line however for example would get tremendously better with a DT.

Oddly enough Kiper doesn't even seem that confident with who is the best OT in this draft. Also, in case Jiggy is curious where Tunsil ranks according to Kiper here it is:


1. *Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State Buckeyes

No change here. He's an explosive pass-rusher who has power and awareness and is consistently disruptive against the run. Bosa has size and versatility that will fit any scheme, as well as the ability to go around blockers or right through them. He's been double- and triple-teamed. When he's one-on-one he wins, period.


2. *Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame Fighting Irish

A rare player at his position who could be drafted this high. Jumps off the screen. It's really hard to pick out serious flaws, aside from a missed tackle here and there and occasional overpursuit. Smith is making a case to be a versatile linebacker you can select safe in knowing he can be plugged in right away. He can be moved around, has good length and can flat-out fly for a linebacker, with sub-4.5 speed.


3. *Jalen Ramsey, CB/S, Florida State Seminoles

Status quo all season after the move back to cornerback. A does-it-all talent who had already started 28 college games heading into this season, I would have rated him the top safety taken in the 2015 draft. But this season he's at cornerback. He has the length, range and exceptional instincts to make plays all over the field; indeed, he has enjoyed an expected smooth transition to corner. He is a truly gifted athlete.


4. DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon Ducks

Love his motor and his production while dealing with a lot of blocking attention. Similar to Bosa in that regard. At 6-foot-7 and 300 pounds, he has an impressive frame and with another year of polish could be a fit in almost any kind of system.



5. *Laremy Tunsil, OT, Ole Miss Rebels

The entire skill set is there. Flexible, quick, powerful and long, I still think he's the best pass-blocker in the draft at this point in my evals, a guy who wouldn't look out of place if he had to play on Sundays this season. Nimble but strong, he has all the traits you look for at that spot.


6.*Paxton Lynch, QB, Memphis Tigers

It's pretty neck-and-neck with him and Jared Goff in a merely OK class of quarterbacks. Lynch has good size with room to fill out. He not only has a strong arm but also the ability to get the ball out fast. He has the height to see the whole field quickly without creating space, and he throws well on the move when he needs that space. It sounds trite, but the talent for the position is so clear, and the decision-making has been very good.


7. Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame Fighting Irish

He marries prototypical length with impressive movement skills. He moves well laterally and can flash great hand use. I thought consistency was the problem last year, but he put things together in 2015. He could push to become the top tackle available.
When was this posted because everything I see posted is from the spring.

And reading it again this is before last season.

Come on man.:lol

Also you are talking in abstracts like any DT makes our D-line better than adding Tunsil which makes no sense.
 
Last edited:

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
December 17, 2015 was when Kiper put this out :dunce
Ok my bad I read something wrong, but he definitely has him ranked over Staley so I don't know how you went there.

And everybody outside Kiper has Tunsil rated in their top 4 I said consensus not unanimous, Bruckner is all over the place and fits that bust possibility as much as Tunsil.

And let's read what he actually says about Tunsil.


5. *Laremy Tunsil, OT, Ole Miss Rebels

The entire skill set is there. Flexible, quick, powerful and long, I still think he's the best pass-blocker in the draft at this point in my evals, a guy who wouldn't look out of place if he had to play on Sundays this season. Nimble but strong, he has all the traits you look for at that spot.
As opposed to Bruckner.

4. DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon Ducks

Love his motor and his production while dealing with a lot of blocking attention. Similar to Bosa in that regard. At 6-foot-7 and 300 pounds, he has an impressive frame and with another year of polish could be a fit in almost any kind of system.
Who sounds like the bigger risk?

And like I said I am not saying Tunsil should be the pick I just think him being a OT should not be a negative, He should be in the mix like evrybody else.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,463
Ok my bad I read something wrong, but he definitely has him ranked over Staley so I don't know how you went there.
Because Kiper literally says that Staley may end up being the top OT prospect. Honestly, if we didn't have Tyron Smith, I would be all on board with Tunsil, so don't take it as I don't like him as a prospect. I think he will be a very good OT in the NFL. But there isn't some massive talent gap between him and the other guys that makes it worth taking a position that we are stacked at over a position of desperate need.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
Because Kiper literally says that Staley may end up being the top OT prospect. Honestly, if we didn't have Tyron Smith, I would be all on board with Tunsil, so don't take it as I don't like him as a prospect. I think he will be a very good OT in the NFL. But there isn't some massive talent gap between him and the other guys that makes it worth taking a position that we are stacked at over a position of desperate need.
Ok you are parsing words now all of these rankings are subject to change but as of now Tunsil is the higher rated prospect.

So it's ok to reach for a DT at 4 over a player who is rated higher?

And we are not stacked at RT, Free is a declining player and there is a huge ? mark after him.

Anyway I see we just disagree on the talent gap at those positions.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,481
It's the law of diminishing returns. At some point pumping a great amount of resources into a position will produce less and less of an increase in overall productivity.
I agree. I've made the same exact argument.
 

Rev

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
19,333
I started the talk on DT and it was just an example. Instead of DT what about Treadwell instead? Jack? I think either one would improve the team as a whole over another OL and wouldn't be so much of a reach if at all.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,463
So it's ok to reach for a DT at 4 over a player who is rated higher?

And we are not stacked at RT, Free is a declining player and there is a huge ? mark after him.

Anyway I see we just disagree on the talent gap at those positions.
I think pure BPA is just as dumb as drafting purely for need. The team who drafts a TE every year because he is BPA is just as dumb as the team who drafts a shitty QB because they need one. And we are stacked on the offensive line. We have 4 first round talents on that line. We have a veteran starter at RT and a third round pick developing behind him. So yeah, throwing a shit ton of resources at the offensive line is stupid.

I've been pretty consistent in my opinion, if we don't take a QB at 4, then I trade down. It's really that simple in my opinion. But some people seem to think no one will want to trade with us. So if the discussion is, who would I take at four if the the option of trading down is gone and the QBs are gone, I wouldn't take Tunsil. But it's not a realistic scenario in the first place.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,463
I started the talk on DT and it was just an example. Instead of DT what about Treadwell instead? Jack? I think either one would improve the team as a whole over another OL and wouldn't be so much of a reach if at all.
I'd prefer DT over Jack but I do like Jack. And arguable Jack does fit a need on defense. I go back and forth on Treadwell. I really like the player. I just wish he complimented Dez's skill set more. I'd prefer a more explosive speed guy as opposed to another very talented jump ball receiver who can break a ton of tackles.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
I agree. I've made the same exact argument.
And it still makes no sense considering what we have at RT and what is available in this draft.

You can never have diminishing returns when you are adding an above average starter cheaply to a position that has to be addressed moving forward.

This is not in a vacuum you have to actually look at the talent available in this draft, now that is up for debate but there is no debate that Tunsil should be in the discussion.
 
Top Bottom