Training Camp Thread...

Cowboysrock55

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I'm not saying he isn't useful, but I'm not going to get overly excited over him being "uncoverable" yet again in camp.

500 yards is not a career year unless you have a pretty low bar. And it doesn't jibe with "uncoverable" no matter how you try to twist and turn and contextualize and explain it.
You boil it down to yards. But that's not always a great indicator of a players productivity. I guess that's what I'm getting at.
 

ravidubey

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Our standards have waned over the last two decades in Dallas.

It's to the point is where we aspire to "barely good enough".

Beasley will never develop into an every route WR no matter how well he practices.

He can't break tackles to save his life and any DB with decent makeup speed closes on him immediately. This allows the defense more freedom to cover others, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

He is a one-trick pony, get open on 3rd down, catch, and get immediately tackled for a 10 yard gain. His permanent position at #3 makes him a progress stopper for anyone we want to develop from the depths of the roster.

He's not nearly as good as Julian Edelman, who is taller and bigger and even then only just above average.
 

Rev

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Name me one team that has #1 WRs at 1-5 on the depth chart. Don't care that he can't play on the outside. You say DBs with closing speed can catch him? Well that means he is open and 10 yards is a chain mover. I would say that is extremely valuable and New England (the team that is constantly winning) does as well. You act like they throw him the ball 30 times a game which is false. Who is he stopping from developing?
 

L.T. Fan

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Our standards have waned over the last two decades in Dallas.

It's to the point is where we aspire to "barely good enough".

Beasley will never develop into an every route WR no matter how well he practices.

He can't break tackles to save his life and any DB with decent makeup speed closes on him immediately. This allows the defense more freedom to cover others, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

He is a one-trick pony, get open on 3rd down, catch, and get immediately tackled for a 10 yard gain. His permanent position at #3 makes him a progress stopper for anyone we want to develop from the depths of the roster.

He's not nearly as good as Julian Edelman, who is taller and bigger and even then only just above average.
Beasley was never drafted to be an every down or route receiver. He was brought on to be a situational receiver. He does an outstanding job as a utility player.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Name me one team that has #1 WRs at 1-5 on the depth chart. Don't care that he can't play on the outside. You say DBs with closing speed can catch him? Well that means he is open and 10 yards is a chain mover. I would say that is extremely valuable and New England (the team that is constantly winning) does as well. You act like they throw him the ball 30 times a game which is false. Who is he stopping from developing?
What other WR's are we completing 70% of our balls to? I can tell you we aren't coming close to that with Dez or Williams. Oddly enough what he does as a receiver is probably closer to what Witten does. Except he is a little more explosive. It's extremely useful and if the guy is giving us Witten like production out of the slot, I'm all for it. (He doesn't block like Witten but when we go three wides, defense are going nickle, so he doesn't need to block like Witten).
 

boozeman

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Well, after reading the last few responses in this thread it pains me that I am compelled to defend Shrimp Beasley.

He still has real issues, such as, well, being a tiny receiver that can't tough through coverages.

But, that said, if we cut him tomorrow, the Patriots could probably take his scrawny white cracked ass and make a 1,000 yard WR out of him.

They do that. They plan for the little shifty whitey.

He does have the handicaps that come with our offensive designs.

I was actually impressed they took him to the edge and had him challenge the Rams corners from the perimeter and using the space he can create to his advantage. I still remember Garrett downplaying Amendola because he felt he could never, ever, play from the outside of the formation.

They just need to trust him as a part of the attack and moreso, the design of the offense needs to get away from the go-to on 3rd and 9, which is the Witten curl over the middle so his BFF throws it at him.

Now, if you will excuse me, I must shower.
 

E_D_Guapo

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Well, after reading the last few responses in this thread it pains me that I am compelled to defend Shrimp Beasley.

He still has real issues, such as, well, being a tiny receiver that can't tough through coverages.

But, that said, if we cut him tomorrow, the Patriots could probably take his scrawny white cracked ass and make a 1,000 yard WR out of him.

They do that. They plan for the little shifty whitey.

He does have the handicaps that come with our offensive designs.

I was actually impressed they took him to the edge and had him challenge the Rams corners from the perimeter and using the space he can create to his advantage. I still remember Garrett downplaying Amendola because he felt he could never, ever, play from the outside of the formation.

They just need to trust him as a part of the attack and moreso, the design of the offense needs to get away from the go-to on 3rd and 9, which is the Witten curl over the middle so his BFF throws it at him.

Now, if you will excuse me, I must shower.
No doubt. As limited as he is there is great value in a guy that can regularly get open and turn 3rd down into 1st down. I don't love the shifty little white WR either but Beasley fills a valuable role.
 

Joe Fan

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He can be outspoken on Twitter. Mostly I find it pretty funny, but I guess some people might call it being a "jackass". That rant his wife went on crossed the line though
Ah yes, this was the rant I was referring to.

The others were fine, this one definitely crossed it though as you mentioned.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Ah yes, this was the rant I was referring to.

The others were fine, this one definitely crossed it though as you mentioned.
Do you blame someone for the rant of their wife? I don't think you should hold a person liable for the dumb things their relatives say. Just my opinion.
 

ravidubey

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No doubt. As limited as he is there is great value in a guy that can regularly get open and turn 3rd down into 1st down. I don't love the shifty little white WR either but Beasley fills a valuable role.
Then just play him on 3rd down and 10 or fewer yards to go.

This is first down per target percentage, yards per target, and YPC in 2014 with Romo.

Escobar 53.8% 8.07 11.66
Witten 53.3% 7.81 10.98
Beasley 53.06% 8.57 11.35
Williams 46.1% 9.55 16.8
Bryant 44.1% 9.7 15
Harris 15% 9.66 16.5

Bruce Butler had 38.5% 9.92 21.5 in 2015.

Beasley is more like a second TE who can't block than a WR. IMO better to run a 2-TE offense than include Beasley. At least that way you have better blocking for a draw. And always use real WR's on 1st and 2nd down. Basically relegate Beasley as 4th WR in an empty backfield on 3rd down with under 10 yards to go.

I'd love to see Williams and Butler on the field at the same time and more targets for Street. IMO it's better to target the talented player who might actually do something with the football than to go for the short gain. Overall it will work out better for the team and develop our young talent.
 

L.T. Fan

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Then just play him on 3rd down and 10 or fewer yards to go.

This is first down per target percentage, yards per target, and YPC in 2014 with Romo.

Escobar 53.8% 8.07 11.66
Witten 53.3% 7.81 10.98
Beasley 53.06% 8.57 11.35
Williams 46.1% 9.55 16.8
Bryant 44.1% 9.7 15
Harris 15% 9.66 16.5

Bruce Butler had 38.5% 9.92 21.5 in 2015.

Beasley is more like a second TE who can't block than a WR. IMO better to run a 2-TE offense than include Beasley. At least that way you have better blocking for a draw. And always use real WR's on 1st and 2nd down. Basically relegate Beasley as 4th WR in an empty backfield on 3rd down with under 10 yards to go.

I'd love to see Williams and Butler on the field at the same time and more targets for Street. IMO it's better to target the talented player who might actually do something with the football than to go for the short gain. Overall it will work out better for the team and develop our young talent.
I hear you but the primary objective of the game is to move the ball toward the goal line and across. With Beasley in the line up that is likely to happen not withstanding the play alignment.
 

Cowboysrock55

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IMO better to run a 2-TE offense than include Beasley. At least that way you have better blocking for a draw. And always use real WR's on 1st and 2nd down. Basically relegate Beasley as 4th WR in an empty backfield on 3rd down with under 10 yards to go.
Beasley may be a lesser blocker then a TE but he is also blocking a CB as opposed to a LBer. Given the choice? I'd much rather run against a nickle defense then against a 7 or 8 in the box. It's why I think the two TE offense is dumb as hell and why I prefer a 3 wr offense. Sure your third WR can't block as well but he doesn't need to. The defense knows they need speed to cover that guy. Which means they put a corner in there that half the NFL rbs can run right over like a speed bump.

And if you can get 10 yards and a first down on first or second down, why not?
 

dallen

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Well, after reading the last few responses in this thread it pains me that I am compelled to defend Shrimp Beasley.

He still has real issues, such as, well, being a tiny receiver that can't tough through coverages.

But, that said, if we cut him tomorrow, the Patriots could probably take his scrawny white cracked ass and make a 1,000 yard WR out of him.

They do that. They plan for the little shifty whitey.

He does have the handicaps that come with our offensive designs.

I was actually impressed they took him to the edge and had him challenge the Rams corners from the perimeter and using the space he can create to his advantage. I still remember Garrett downplaying Amendola because he felt he could never, ever, play from the outside of the formation.

They just need to trust him as a part of the attack and moreso, the design of the offense needs to get away from the go-to on 3rd and 9, which is the Witten curl over the middle so his BFF throws it at him.

Now, if you will excuse me, I must shower.
I appreciate this. I know it was difficult for you.
 

dallen

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Do you blame someone for the rant of their wife? I don't think you should hold a person liable for the dumb things their relatives say. Just my opinion.
The way I remember it, his wife was on Twitter telling Cowboys fans in general to "go fuck yourselves" after he fumbled in a game. The worst thing Cole did was specifically reply to one fan that was attacking him and told him to "go eat a dick". For me the difference was that he was responding directly to a person who was attacking him while his wife threw the entire fan base under the bus. It is a small difference maybe, but for me it was the difference between defending yourself and attacking a group of people. I don't hold him accountable for what she did but I think it does kind of bleed into the perception that he is an ungrateful jackass. Whatever the case this was like 2 years ago so it seems like somebody convinced her attacking fans of husband's team isn't the greatest idea.

Plus, c'mon, telling someone to go eat a dick is always funny.
 

ravidubey

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And if you can get 10 yards and a first down on first or second down, why not?
But that's not what's happening. By his lack of true WR numbers, I think Beasley is making more 3rd downs happen. He's producing yards like a 2nd TE instead of sparking the offense with yards and big play potential.

Also, consider whether Beasley could even block a CB or Safety? Certainly not an MLB in a Kiffen-style defense. So unlike a true 2nd TE he's not really threatening a run.

I also believe by his position on the depth chart he limits the reps developmental WR's like Butler and Street get.

I firmly believe Beasley's not helping enough on the other two downs enough to justify his playing time. I don't hate the guy, I just want him to be Ricky Proehl, not try to be Az Hakim.

I want to see more Brice Butler and not at the expense of Terrance Williams.
 

jsmith6919

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The way I remember it, his wife was on Twitter telling Cowboys fans in general to "go fuck yourselves" after he fumbled in a game. The worst thing Cole did was specifically reply to one fan that was attacking him and told him to "go eat a dick". For me the difference was that he was responding directly to a person who was attacking him while his wife threw the entire fan base under the bus. It is a small difference maybe, but for me it was the difference between defending yourself and attacking a group of people. I don't hold him accountable for what she did but I think it does kind of bleed into the perception that he is an ungrateful jackass. Whatever the case this was like 2 years ago so it seems like somebody convinced her attacking fans of husband's team isn't the greatest idea.

Plus, c'mon, telling someone to go eat a dick is always funny.
Yea it's not like she went full Miko Grimes
 
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