2016 POTUS Election Thread

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L.T. Fan

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Clinton has backing from all the previous dem presidents. Trump has backing from none of the previous Republican presidents. Clinton has gotten endorsements from Sanders. Trump does not have endorsements from Rubio, Trump, JEB, or Cruz. Clinton has more political success, more legislative experience more executive experience, more diplomatic experience, has managed to raise more money than Trump by an order of magnitude.

Trump has bankrupt several businesses, Hillary hasn't. He's been sued 3500 times thanks to his shady business dealings. Trump has threatened to pull out of NATO, start mass deportations, create a Muslim registration, forbid Muslim immigration, he thinks he can negotiate the national debt.

These are facts. That's why Trump supporters don't like talking about facts. They're about feelings.
And isn't it amazing that without the benefit of the political machine, Trump managed to win the nomination. Maybe he has something going for him or maybe a great deal of the citizenry can see that the alternative is simply unacceptable.

Hillary has never had a business or had to earn money. And just makes deals to keep the coffers full.
 

Jiggyfly

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Trump’s false claim he built his empire with a ‘small loan’ from his father
By Glenn Kessler March 3

View Photos Businessman Donald Trump has become the Republican Party’s presumptive nominee for president.
“It has not been easy for me. And you know I started off in Brooklyn, my father gave me a small loan of a million dollars.”

–Donald Trump, at a town hall appearance, Oct. 26, 2015

“He (Marco Rubio) also said I got $200 million from my father. I wish. I wish. I got a very, very small loan from my father many years ago. I built that into a massive empire and I paid my father back that loan….The number is wrong by a factor of hundreds of — I mean, by a fortune. I got a small loan. I started a business.”

–Trump, news conference, Feb. 26, 2016

A big part of Donald Trump’s mythology is that he built a real estate empire by himself.

Yet his father, Fred Trump, was at one point one of the richest men in America after constructing apartment complexes for the middle-class in Brooklyn and Queens. Donald Trump’s insight was to cross the river and start building in Manhattan, a much more prominent stage for the publicity-conscious would-be billionaire.

Rubio’s claim that Trump received a $200-million inheritance appears too high, though the real figure is elusive. As far as we can determine, the assets distributed to Fred C. Trump’s descendants before and after his death in 1999 has not been revealed. The Daily News in 2000 cited family estimates that his estate was worth $100 million to $300 million but The New York Times recently found documents in Queens Surrogate Court that show that Fred Trump, in his will, divided $20 million among his four surviving children, among other distributions after estate taxes. (The will was contested by the children of his oldest son, Fred C. Trump Jr., who had passed away.)

Trump’s father, like most wealthy individuals, also set up trusts before he died. Donald Trump admitted in a 2007 deposition that he borrowed at least $9 million from his future inheritance when he encountered financial difficulties. The documents (appended at the end of this article) suggest some property—worth, after expenses, about $30 million–was kept in trust after Fred Trump’s death to provide income to his wife, who died in 2000. So that also was presumably divided by the children after her death.

Let’s examine in more detail Trump’s claim that his rise to fortune was fueled by a “small loan.”

The Facts

The building of the Grand Hyatt hotel in 1978 near New York’s Grand Central station was a key element of Trump’s first big deal in Manhattan — obtaining an option on old Penn Central railroad properties. The new hotel, which replaced an aging Commodore property, helped put Trump on the map.

There was a nearly $1 million loan from Trump’s father that was part of the deal — Fred Trump’s Village Construction Corp. provided the loan to help repay draws on a Chase Manhattan credit line that Fred Trump had arranged for his son as he built the hotel. But that loan was only a small part of the father’s involvement in the deal.

Trump’s father — whose name had been besmirched in New York real estate circles after investigations into windfall profits and other abuses in his real estate projects — was an essential silent partner in Trump’s initiative. In effect, the son was the front man, relying on his father’s connections and wealth, while his father stood silently in the background to avoid drawing attention to himself.

Fred Trump — along with the Hyatt hotel chain — jointly guaranteed the $70 million construction loan from Manufacturers Hanover bank, “each assuming a 50 percent share of the obligation and each committing itself to complete the project should Donald be unable to finish it,” according to veteran Trump chronicler Wayne Barrett in his 1992 book, “Trump: The Deals and the Downfall.”

Fred Trump’s signature on the guarantee ensured the new hotel would get built. “No document in the long paper trail attached to the Commodore deal better demonstrated the lack of bank confidence in the Donald or the project, and none made clear the limits of his promoter role,” Barrett wrote. Trump simply did not have the credit or connections to obtain such financing on his own. “It was Fred’s two-decade-old relationship with a top Equitable officer, Ben Holloway, that had helped entice them to do the project.”


Donald Trump makes no mention of his father’s secret — and essential — role in his 1987 memoir, “The Art of the Deal.”

In 1976, The New York Times published a fawning profile of Trump in which he was quoted as saying he was worth $200 million, even though he was only 30. But that figure –which has been widely cited – was false, according to examination of Trump’s finances in 1981 by the Casino Control Commission. (The document is embedded below.)

Trump’s tax returns at the time indicated his salaried income in 1976 was less than $100,000 a year, which he received as an officer in his father’s company. (His father remained chief executive of the company.) His income taxes reported $76,000 in income in 1975, $25,000 in income in 1976 and $118,000 in income in 1977. He paid no income tax in 1978 and 1979 as he reported negative income, likely because of tax shelters.

Trump also benefited from three trusts that had been set up for family members. In 1976, Fred Trump set up eight $1 million trusts, one each for his five children and three grandchildren, according to the casino document. (That today would be worth about $4 million in inflation-adjusted dollars.) The 1976 Trust paid Trump $19,000 in 1977, $47,200 in 1978, $70,000 in 1979, $90,000 in 1980 and $214,605 in 1981. Trump also received about $12,000 a year from a 1949 trust set up by his father and nearly $2,000 a year from another 1949 trust created by his grandmother. He also received a $6,000 gift every December from his parents.

The casino document lists several other loans from Trump’s father to his son, including a $7.5 million loan with at least a 12-percent interest rate that was still outstanding in 1981.

In 1993, according to the 2005 book “TrumpNation,” by Timothy O’Brien, the children of Fred C. Trump expected to receive about $35 million each when their father passed away. With his casinos failing in the early 1990s, Donald Trump needed to borrow about $10 million to fund his living and office expenses but could offer no collateral to his siblings. He later sought another $20 million but his siblings balked, and a smaller amount was arranged, O’Brien said.

Trump insisted to O’Brien he had made “zero borrowings from the estate” and later unsuccessfully sued the author for libel. In a 2007 deposition related to the lawsuit, Trump admitted he had borrowed “a small amount” from his father’s estate: ‘I think it was like in the $9 million range.”

As Trump’s casinos ran into trouble, Trump’s father also purchased $3.5 million gaming chips, but did not use them, so the casino would have enough cash to make payments on its mortgage — a transaction which casino authorities later said was an illegal loan.

The Pinocchio Test

Trump protests too much when he says that Rubio’s $200-million figure is “wrong by a factor of hundreds.” Trump likely did not inherit $200 million by himself, though perhaps that was the size of the father’s estate, before taxes.

Moreover, Trump’s claim that he built a real-estate fortune out of a “small” $1 million loan is simply not credible. He benefited from numerous loans and loan guarantees, as well as his father’s connections, to make the move into Manhattan. His father also set up lucrative trusts to provide steady income. When Donald Trump became overextended in the casino business, his father bailed him out with a shady casino-chip loan—and Trump also borrowed $9 million against his future inheritance. While Trump asserts “it has not been easy for me,” he glosses over the fact that his father paved the way for his success — and that his father bailed him out when he got into trouble.

For ignoring and playing down the substantial advantages his father’s wealth gave him, Trump earns Four Pinocchios.

Four Pinocchios
 

townsend

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Hillary has never had a business or had to earn money. And just makes deals to keep the coffers full.
Except she absolutely has. She was born middle class, got into Yale Law on merit, was chair of the legal services corporation and a full partner at Rose Law firm. Unlike Trump who got a half billion inheritance and at best kept up with inflation, many assume it's actually much less. But we'll never know because unlike Hillary, Trump never released his tax returns.
 

townsend

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What Trump lacks in credibility he makes up for in the willful ignorance of the people who he's trying to con.
 

L.T. Fan

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What Trump lacks in credibility he makes up for in the willful ignorance of the people who he's trying to con.
Another bold statement without substantiation. If you are referring to the Trump University litigation, it is still ongoing. Nothing has been resolved yet.
 

Jiggyfly

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I was happy to see there still be some dissent at the DNC last night.

It keeps candidates on their toes and shows if done right that energy can be used to make some real changes down ticket were it would actually make a difference.
 

Jiggyfly

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L.T. Fan

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Some folks don't understand the difference in stifling evidence and preventing due process to come to the court system and a trial in process awaiting the outcome.
 

VA Cowboy

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I don't like Hillary at all, but it is laughable to compare her qualifications to Trump.
Moved to liberal NY to run for an easy Senate seat based on her last name....ran for Pres after 1 term, lost the nomination but was given Sec. of State instead of VP which she lobbied for. Served one failed term...ran and was coronated for the Dem nomination.

Yeah, nice resume while accomplishing nothing but trying to build a resume and then have the nomination handed to her because she's, Hillary F'n Clinton.
 

L.T. Fan

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Moved to liberal NY to run for an easy Senate seat based on her last name....ran for Pres after 1 term, lost the nomination but was given Sec. of State instead of VP which she lobbied for. Served one failed term...ran and was coronated for the Dem nomination.

Yeah, nice resume while accomplishing nothing but trying to build a resume and then have the nomination handed to her because she's, Hillary F'n Clinton.
Don't confuse them with facts. Besides she got the benefit of the rigged DNC.
 

L.T. Fan

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Some folks don't understand the difference in stifling evidence and preventing due process to come to the court system and a trial in process awaiting the outcome.
No irony involved.
 

townsend

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Sounds like Obama in that respect.
Obama has successes and failures as a world leader. Trump nothing as a nothing. Comparing any politician from any side Nixon, Cheney, John Edwards, Joseph McCarthy, Carter, Johnson, and Agnew are more trustworthy, successful and legitimate than Trump. Every other politician is a shade of gray and Trump is jet fucking black, there's literally not a single good thing to say about him, nothing he can say qualifies him for the presidency.

Even if you consider Hillary's time as a Senator, Secretary of State, and advisor to a her husband as less impressive than it sounds. It's still something, which is infinitely more than nothing, which is what Trump would bring to the presidency.
 

BipolarFuk

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Has Trump even explained how he is going to do all the bullshit he says he is?

Of course not. He just says shit and the fucking rubes fall over themselves to praise him.

Couldn't even tell you what the nuclear triad was and millions of slack jawed fucktards are going to vote for him.
 

L.T. Fan

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Obama has successes and failures as a world leader. Trump nothing as a nothing. Comparing any politician from any side Nixon, Cheney, John Edwards, Joseph McCarthy, Carter, Johnson, and Agnew are more trustworthy, successful and legitimate than Trump. Every other politician is a shade of gray and Trump is jet fucking black, there's literally not a single good thing to say about him, nothing he can say qualifies him for the presidency.

Even if you consider Hillary's time as a Senator, Secretary of State, and advisor to a her husband as less impressive than it sounds. It's still something, which is infinitely more than nothing, which is what Trump would bring to the presidency.
How did you come to that outcome? You made judgements of individuals based on after the fact history and presumed Trump' s failure without the benefit of actual occurrence. That's kinda super presumptive.
 

townsend

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How did you come to that outcome. You made judgements of individuals based on after the fact history and presumed Trump' s failure without the benefit of actual occurrence. That's kinda super presumptive.
Because Trump says very little and the stuff he does say is nonsense at best and terrifying at worst. Making a judgement with available data is how humans evaluate things. All data Trump has supplied is terrible. An election is about choosing the most qualified candidate, and he holds no qualifications.

What crucial nugget of information could I possibly missing?
 

L.T. Fan

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Because Trump says very little and the stuff he does say is nonsense at best and terrifying at worst. Making a judgement with available data is how humans evaluate things. All data Trump has supplied is terrible. An election is about choosing the most qualified candidate, and he holds no qualifications.

What crucial nugget of information could I possibly missing?
You have just answered your own question. You can't evaluate something when you have nothing to evaluate. That's been the whole point from the start. No one knows what he will do or how he will do it yet you are ready to pronounce the outcome and ask everyone to believe your pronouncements as gospel.
 
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