2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Clay_Allison

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A traditional college education is so overrated now. Back in the day, you had to have the paper.

Now you can piece JuCo and online together and get the stupid degree.

Hell, I don't even pay attention to education pieces on a resume anymore.

Ah, ooooh, University of Phoenix....nice touch.

It is expensive, but if I am a kid looking for further education, no effing way I mortgage my future credit and finances to attend a traditional 4-year.
I sort of made that mistake but I only took 10k in loans. Still ended up effing up my credit when the teaching field bottomed out in Texas and I was stuck working as a security guard for 2 years, looking for a teaching gig.

Nowadays I tell anyone who will listen to send their kid to learn a skill. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC guys, hell even truck drivers are rarely out of work.
 

boozeman

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I sort of made that mistake but I only took 10k in loans. Still ended up effing up my credit when the teaching field bottomed out in Texas and I was stuck working as a security guard for 2 years, looking for a teaching gig.

Nowadays I tell anyone who will listen to send their kid to learn a skill. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC guys, hell even truck drivers are rarely out of work.
Pretty much. Learn a trade, you can do okay. Not well off, but you can avoid the trap that some dummy with a four year degree in modern art gets.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Not when I had to spend 100 bucks on bus tickets just to go to the interview. I had a car. That thing you said poor people shouldn't have. Meanwhile you are advocating that they move to towns without public transit.
Didn't say they shouldn't have a car. But they shouldn't have one if they can't afford it. I've been hired off phone interviews. Besides, do you really think McDonalds gives two shits about your address?
 

Cowboysrock55

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Hell, it was a lot easier when I was born than it is now. It's a lot easier now than it's going to be if people like you and CRock get their way. Problem is, I think it's crackpots like Bernie Sanders that are going to get their way and that's just as bad.
So you think things that would help create a booming economy would make it worse for you. Well your life must just be hell.
 

L.T. Fan

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Hell, it was a lot easier when I was born than it is now. It's a lot easier now than it's going to be if people like you and CRock get their way. Problem is, I think it's crackpots like Bernie Sanders that are going to get their way and that's just as bad.
I suppose you would like for guys like me and CRock to carve out a portion of what we have accumulated and turn it over so some who haven't managed to get by can live a little easier. Yeah I am going to try to have my way about that type disposition.
 

townsend

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So you think things that would help create a booming economy would make it worse for you. Well your life must just be hell.
China had a booming economy. Also what you're essentially proposing is lowering the quality of life of the poor in service of corporations profits, how does that help actual people? If Walmart makes another Trillion dollars, congrats to the Waltons I guess, God knows they deserve a break.
 

L.T. Fan

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China had a booming economy. Also what you're essentially proposing is lowering the quality of life of the poor in service of corporations profits, how does that help actual people? If Walmart makes another Trillion dollars, congrats to the Waltons I guess, God knows they deserve a break.
Why the animosity for Wal-Mart? Just because they are a successful company and have a low cost work force they aren't enemies of the land. The idea of business is to optimize profits for Owners and expand to bigger and better things. No one forces anyone to work for them.
 

Jiggyfly

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:lol

Try Missouri, Iowa or any of the other middle America states. My guess is you haven't ventured out into many smaller cities if you think that's true. All of those smaller cities by the way, have Walmart's.
Those places are no cheaper than most of Texas and how are people supposed to save up to move to these cheaper places?

You really are not dealing with any realities on this subject.
 

townsend

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Why the animosity for Wal-Mart? Just because they are a successful company and have a low cost work force they aren't enemies of the land. The idea of business is to optimize profits for Owners and expand to bigger and better things. No one forces anyone to work for them.
Because at a certain point you are expected to take care of your employees. Was-Mart is just a stand in it could be any mega corp that depends on tax dollars to bridge the gap between what they pay their employees and their employee's absolute minimum viable income.

The issue with free market solutions to this problem is that it permits corporations to leverage desperation into additional income. Which is to say the very small percentage of people who own meaningful shares in corporations benefit from the exploitation of the needy.
 

Jiggyfly

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Or get a $50.00 bus ticket to basically anywhere. Mass transit does still exist.
And then what?

How about deposits and actually finding a job.

How do you eat or find a place to live until you get a 1sr check?

And this is only if you have to just take care of yourself.
 

L.T. Fan

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Because at a certain point you are expected to take care of your employees. Was-Mart is just a stand in it could be any mega corp that depends on tax dollars to bridge the gap between what they pay their employees and their employee's absolute minimum viable income.

The issue with free market solutions to this problem is that it permits corporations to leverage desperation into additional income. Which is to say the very small percentage of people who own meaningful shares in corporations benefit from the exploitation of the needy.
You keep saying they depend on tax dollars but I am not seeing that. How can you make that statement? Help me to understand because whether some of the employees utilize welfare relief is not an accurate depiction of the point you are trying to make.
 

townsend

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You keep saying they depend on tax dollars but I am not seeing that. How can you make that statement? Help me to understand because whether some of the employees utilize welfare relief is not an accurate depiction of the point you are trying to make.
My reasoning is that if there were no food stamps then those workers could not and would not work for whatever company. They would end up moving in with relatives or just end up homeless.

Or they just couldn't go to work when their transportation failed. Wal-Mart depends on people actually working there, if they loss their work force to moving or poverty they'd have to raise wages to make their employment sustainable. So welfare is artificially allowing Wal-Mart to pay less than they should for workers.
 

L.T. Fan

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My reasoning is that if there were no food stamps then those workers could not and would not work for whatever company. They would end up moving in with relatives or just end up homeless.

Or they just couldn't go to work when their transportation failed. Wal-Mart depends on people actually working there, if they loss their work force to moving or poverty they'd have to raise wages to make their employment sustainable. So welfare is artificially allowing Wal-Mart to pay less than they should for workers.
Buy that standard you might as well throw in McDonald's and thousands of other retailers. The fact would remain however, that none of these businesses are actually subsidized by this methodology. Your example is a personal conclusion but it isn't factually correct. Whether a low income worker for any business is also drawing some kind of government subsidy doesn't define that the employer is getting a direct benefit. They are only getting the benefit of the employees service not their windfall.
 

Clay_Allison

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So you think things that would help create a booming economy would make it worse for you. Well your life must just be hell.
I suppose you would like for guys like me and CRock to carve out a portion of what we have accumulated and turn it over so some who haven't managed to get by can live a little easier. Yeah I am going to try to have my way about that type disposition.

A booming economy? Hah. Maybe you'll increase the value of some stocks. Government protected companies living off subsidies and bailouts aren't much more efficient than government agencies themselves. They never get a chance to get replaced by better, more viable competition and the industry stagnates. You can posture that you're a free market capitalist, but if you vote for a Republican, you're voting for more corporate welfare and higher taxes.

The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is Democrats want to raise taxes and give money to the poor, Republicans want to raise your taxes and give money to the rich. The option where we get to keep it isn't on the table.
 

L.T. Fan

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A booming economy? Hah. Maybe you'll increase the value of some stocks. Government protected companies living off subsidies and bailouts aren't much more efficient than government agencies themselves. They never get a chance to get replaced by better, more viable competition and the industry stagnates. You can posture that you're a free market capitalist, but if you vote for a Republican, you're voting for more corporate welfare and higher taxes.

The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is Democrats want to raise taxes and give money to the poor, Republicans want to raise your taxes and give money to the rich. The option where we get to keep it isn't on the table.
I am not sure what that has to do with what I said.
 

Clay_Allison

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I am not sure what that has to do with what I said.
You said I wanted to tax you and give the money to poor people. That's not me, that's the people (like Bernie Sanders) who are going to get voted in because the Republican Party has fallen on its face so hard since Reagan.

I'd vote for a Republican in a second who believed in the free market and wanted to do common sense conservative things like reform emissions regulation to encourage US manufacturing and simplify the tax code. So far they haven't so much as knocked on the IRS's door, or the EPA's. So, when someone like Sanders gets the job, it won't matter as much to me, because the guy he'll be running against (whomever the next Romney turns out to be) will be just as bad.
 

L.T. Fan

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You said I wanted to tax you and give the money to poor people. That's not me, that's the people (like Bernie Sanders) who are going to get voted in because the Republican Party has fallen on its face so hard since Reagan.

I'd vote for a Republican in a second who believed in the free market and wanted to do common sense conservative things like reform emissions regulation to encourage US manufacturing and simplify the tax code. So far they haven't so much as knocked on the IRS's door, or the EPA's. So, when someone like Sanders gets the job, it won't matter as much to me, because the guy he'll be running against (whomever the next Romney turns out to be) will be just as bad.
I didn't mean you specifically wanted to tax me rather there is a mindset in this country that would like to and I was responding that my position differed. Here's where I am. The constitution says that all are ENTITLED to life liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness. The consternation comes when folks try to determine who should be responsible to fulfill the pursuit. There is no entitlement guarantee to happiness only the right to pursue It. That's pretty much where I am on the subject at hand whether it be college educations ,jobs, etc. I have no predetermined political party stance but I am swayed to the philosophy that says each is first responsible for themselves. Subsequent acts of responsibility to others comes from my faith not from governmental mandates.
 

townsend

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Buy that standard you might as well throw in McDonald's and thousands of other retailers. The fact would remain however, that none of these businesses are actually subsidized by this methodology. Your example is a personal conclusion but it isn't factually correct. Whether a low income worker for any business is also drawing some kind of government subsidy doesn't define that the employer is getting a direct benefit. They are only getting the benefit of the employees service not their windfall.
but the employee service is contingent on the government assistance. Which is to say they are getting that service THANKS to government assistance.

It's peculiar to look at in medias res, but imagine you were being recruited to a company in a different city. You want the job but the salary isn't enough to make up for the difference in cost of living. Now at that the city, wanting to promote its economy decides to award a stipend anyone who earns less than 40,000 dollars, you're offered 38,000 and make a 2,000 dollar stipend. Now let's say that company could have easily afforded 40K, and intentionally lowered their offer because they knew the stipend would pay the difference, they literally just pocketed 2,000 dollars of government money that only served to benefit them.


You're right, Wal-mart isn't the only corporation that does that, I was using them as an example of all the mega corps that depend on underpaid service.
 
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