Jared Goff vs Paxton Lynch

Jiggyfly

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The guy that lost the Bama job over getting spotted at a strip club and the guy who drew up the unrelated Run and Shoot offense.
Unrelated?

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense
In American football the air raid offense refers to an offensive scheme popularized by such coaches as Mike Leach, Hal Mumme, Sonny Dykes, and Tony Franklin during their tenures at Valdosta State, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Louisiana Tech, and Washington State.

The system is designed out of a shotgun formation with four wide receivers and one running back. The formations are a variation of the run and shoot offense with two outside receivers and two inside slot receivers. The offense also uses trips formations featuring three wide receivers on one side of the field and a lone single receiver on the other side.
 

Clay_Allison

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Unrelated?

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_raid_offense
Yeah, that's some wild speculation on that wiki editor's part, there's no coaching link between Leach and Mouse Davis, June Jones or any other R&S coach. Every offense has 4 wide packages in it, Coryell, WCO, Erhardt-Perkins. You have to look at the terminology to find the roots of the system and which coaching tree it's from.
 

Clay_Allison

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I never said Kliff learned the air raid from Sumlin so stop that bullshit right now.

Everybody does not run the Air Raid, there are different variations of the spread which is a variation of the run and shoot.

So claiming everybody is following Leach is extremely short sided.

Joe tiller who coached Brees is also a person who influenced a lot of what is going on.

Hal Mumme also is a forefather in all of this.
Mumme coached his way rapidly down to division III shortly after Leach left Kentucky, so I question his offensive Genius. Fact is that people are following Leach because they are hiring his coaching tree. Briles, Dykes, Cumbie, Holgorsen, Kingsbury, all Leach assistants and/or players. His coaching tree is getting Coryell-level extensive when you start including even single degrees of separation.
 

GForce78NJ

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the more I read about the quarterbacks available the more I lean towards Carson Wentz.

The knock on Wentz is he's not pro ready but he has all the intangibles and could potentially the best of the 3 in a few years. We have a few years to wait for him. Goff is pro ready today and can be stuck in a lineup and do well. While Goff right now is the better person to draft he is not going to be available after the Browns. Lynch has a lot of good things about him but I don't see that drastic of a difference between him and Wentz. Hell, I like Wentz better because he's run a little bit of a pro style offense. Coming back from a broken wrist and being able to complete some extremely difficult throws shows what type of competitor he is. Lynch is #3 on my board.
 

Simpleton

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We will see but I think there is a possibility that we are talking about 3 QBs at the top of this draft and in no particular order after the Senior Bowl. I think teams are a lot higher on Wentz then what "experts" initially realized.
Mayock and McShay are already basically saying he's right there with Goff and Lynch, NFLDraftScout has him at 18th overall right now. With a strong Senior Bowl he will only rise, likely to the point where pretty much everybody would be comfortable taking him at 4.
 

boozeman

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Mayock and McShay are already basically saying he's right there with Goff and Lynch, NFLDraftScout has him at 18th overall right now. With a strong Senior Bowl he will only rise, likely to the point where pretty much everybody would be comfortable taking him at 4.
He will go in the first. The question is how high and how willing the team is that takes him to defend it, because Joe Six Pack will have no fucking idea who he is.
 

skidadl

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Mumme coached his way rapidly down to division III shortly after Leach left Kentucky, so I question his offensive Genius. Fact is that people are following Leach because they are hiring his coaching tree. Briles, Dykes, Cumbie, Holgorsen, Kingsbury, all Leach assistants and/or players. His coaching tree is getting Coryell-level extensive when you start including even single degrees of separation.
For a guy as young as he is and still actively coaching Leach's coaching tree has to be one of the biggest currently.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Mayock and McShay are already basically saying he's right there with Goff and Lynch, NFLDraftScout has him at 18th overall right now. With a strong Senior Bowl he will only rise, likely to the point where pretty much everybody would be comfortable taking him at 4.
Yeah, I think it's going to be a draft where we know a team like the Browns are taking a QB but we have no idea which of those 3 they are taking. I think all 3 guys will end up with similar grades and then it just comes down to personal preference.
 

Rev

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You mean other two teams....
 

Jiggyfly

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:lol


Leach changed the FB landscape with the air raid. Price and Davis have absolutely nothing to do with the air raid.
When did I ever say they did.

I swear it's like people are going out of their way to have an issue with something I said.

Let's recap.

It was said that Leach changed college football with the air raid, I said there were people before him that changed it by implementing the spread, those people were Price, Tiller and Mumme.

And the current air raid type offenses are variants of the run and shoot which was implemented by Davis.

Also every spread offense being run now is not air raid, you have the pistol, you have what Rodriguez and Holgerson run and there are offenses that have components of all of these.

Let's not act like Leach did something that has never been done before, he built on what had been before and he learned under Mumme who learned from Lavell Edwards.

Yes Leach has an extensive coaching tree and has refined his particular philosophy into a great offense but he did not change college football.

There are just as many people running variants of Rich Rodriguez spread as there are people running the air raid.

And all of these offenses were crafted from the run and shoot by Davis at portland state and the veer offense by yeoman at Houston.
 

Jiggyfly

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Yeah, that's some wild speculation on that wiki editor's part, there's no coaching link between Leach and Mouse Davis, June Jones or any other R&S coach. Every offense has 4 wide packages in it, Coryell, WCO, Erhardt-Perkins. You have to look at the terminology to find the roots of the system and which coaching tree it's from.
That is not speculation anybody with a passing knowledge of offensive sets and plays can see the influence of the run and shoot.

And Rich Rod's Spread has changed college football just as much as what Leach is doing.
 

Jiggyfly

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And let's stop derailing this thread if Clay and Skid want to continue this let's move it into the college football thread.
 

Jiggyfly

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Yeah, I think it's going to be a draft where we know a team like the Browns are taking a QB but we have no idea which of those 3 they are taking. I think all 3 guys will end up with similar grades and then it just comes down to personal preference.
I think Jackson likes a more classic pocket style QB so I would think Goff and Wentz would be his top 2.
 

skidadl

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When did I ever say they did.

I swear it's like people are going out of their way to have an issue with something I said.

Let's recap.

It was said that Leach changed college football with the air raid, I said there were people before him that changed it by implementing the spread, those people were Price, Tiller and Mumme.

And the current air raid type offenses are variants of the run and shoot which was implemented by Davis.

Also every spread offense being run now is not air raid, you have the pistol, you have what Rodriguez and Holgerson run and there are offenses that have components of all of these.

Let's not act like Leach did something that has never been done before, he built on what had been before and he learned under Mumme who learned from Lavell Edwards.

Yes Leach has an extensive coaching tree and has refined his particular philosophy into a great offense but he did not change college football.

There are just as many people running variants of Rich Rodriguez spread as there are people running the air raid.

And all of these offenses were crafted from the run and shoot by Davis at portland state and the veer offense by yeoman at Houston.
I honestly don't even know where to start.

Let me just say this - I'm 100% sure that I have a better understanding of the air raid, it's varieties, it's origin and it's evolution. I've studies it extensively, been to the clinics, heard it from the horses mouth, read the books, installed it more than once myself and so on. I pretty much dedicated myself to learning all about it because I patterned my coaching and systems after Leach. I've always ran a contrarian offense and defense because you can make up for talent gaps with things that inexperienced (and often experienced) coaches can't adjust to it well.

Unfortunately you are forcing me to defend Leach who I don't even respect anymore.

There is just no use because you are wrong about more than one thing and I have NEVER witnessed you come close to admitting that you are wrong.
 
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