2016 POTUS Election Thread

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L.T. Fan

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Thanks for making my point for me.

And how is the reporter confused he is talking exsplicitly about tax returns.
I don't even know what your point is. The writer is confused because he thinks the ethics committee requires tax returns from nominees and the Executives. They do not and the writer is in error. I cannot get any plainer.
 

Jiggyfly

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http://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/whats-under-the-hood-tax-return-vs-financial-disclosure

Presidential vetting is not for the faint of heart. Rigorous debates, interviews, fact checks, and disclosures are well-established components of any national campaign. As part of this, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) requires all candidates for federal office to file a disclosure of their personal finances.1 The vast majority of presidential candidates have gone beyond this requirement, however, and also released their tax returns.

Why? After all, Donald Trump, who has withheld his tax return, recently claimed that you could learn more about him through his financial disclosure.2 But the fact is, tax returns are very different from the FEC’s financial disclosure—and provide very different information about a candidate. Specifically, here are six things tax returns show that financial disclosures do not:

How much a candidate paid in taxes. Financial disclosures do not include how much a candidate paid in taxes and, thus, what their effective tax rate was.
What tax breaks a candidate claimed. Financial disclosures do not list what types of tax deductions a candidate has claimed. These could range from deducting interest paid on one’s mortgage to putting a goat on a golf course to qualify for farmland tax credits.

Whether a candidate has offshore accounts. Financial disclosures ask candidates to list assets but are not required to provide detailed information, so offshore accounts can be easily masked.

Charitable giving. Financial disclosures do not include information on what, if anything, a candidate has given to charity.

A more truthful picture. Financial disclosures are reviewed by the FEC for compliance with reporting requirements, but they are not audited for accuracy like tax returns which carry fines and possible jail time for fraud.3 Because of that, a tax return presents less of an opportunity to inflate claims of wealth.

Numbers down to the cent. Financial disclosures report assets in broad ranges (e.g. $1,001 - $15,000; over $1,000,000),4 while tax returns focus on the exact dollar figure of an asset.
 

L.T. Fan

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http://www.thirdway.org/one-pager/whats-under-the-hood-tax-return-vs-financial-disclosure

Presidential vetting is not for the faint of heart. Rigorous debates, interviews, fact checks, and disclosures are well-established components of any national campaign. As part of this, the Federal Election Commission (FEC) requires all candidates for federal office to file a disclosure of their personal finances.1 The vast majority of presidential candidates have gone beyond this requirement, however, and also released their tax returns.

Why? After all, Donald Trump, who has withheld his tax return, recently claimed that you could learn more about him through his financial disclosure.2 But the fact is, tax returns are very different from the FEC’s financial disclosure—and provide very different information about a candidate. Specifically, here are six things tax returns show that financial disclosures do not:

How much a candidate paid in taxes. Financial disclosures do not include how much a candidate paid in taxes and, thus, what their effective tax rate was.
What tax breaks a candidate claimed. Financial disclosures do not list what types of tax deductions a candidate has claimed. These could range from deducting interest paid on one’s mortgage to putting a goat on a golf course to qualify for farmland tax credits.

Whether a candidate has offshore accounts. Financial disclosures ask candidates to list assets but are not required to provide detailed information, so offshore accounts can be easily masked.

Charitable giving. Financial disclosures do not include information on what, if anything, a candidate has given to charity.

A more truthful picture. Financial disclosures are reviewed by the FEC for compliance with reporting requirements, but they are not audited for accuracy like tax returns which carry fines and possible jail time for fraud.3 Because of that, a tax return presents less of an opportunity to inflate claims of wealth.

Numbers down to the cent. Financial disclosures report assets in broad ranges (e.g. $1,001 - $15,000; over $1,000,000),4 while tax returns focus on the exact dollar figure of an asset.
This is exactly what I posted. Tax returns are not part of the process. Why are you not understanding this?
 

Jiggyfly

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I don't even know what your point is. The writer is confused because he thinks the ethics committee requires tax returns from nominees and the Executives. They do not and the writer is in error. I cannot get any plainer.
My point is that Trump still has not turned over his taxes and that was the point of the author.

The author said they usually have access but since Trump has not turned them over they don't.

Once again making a fuss about something that has nothing to do with the topic.
 

Jiggyfly

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This is exactly what I posted. Tax returns are not part of the process. Why are you not understanding this?
What don't you understand?

Nobody has a clear understanding of Trumps business interest yet you were claiming people in washington had seen everything.

You said.

Trumps tax forms are already in the hands of government officials and likely in the hands of his attorneys who are under attorney client privelege.
Wrong again.
 

L.T. Fan

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My point is that Trump still has not turned over his taxes and that was the point of the author.

The author said they usually have access but since Trump has not turned them over they don't.

Once again making a fuss about something that has nothing to do with the topic.
No one turns over tax returns to the ethics committee. The author obviously doesn't know this. I gave a link detailing what the committee requires and tax returns are not required so why are you still hanging on to it. The author made a mistake in his article which started the conversation and I have pointed out why he is wrong but you insist on making a point of Trumps tax returns. If he chooses to reveal them it will be after the audit is completed. Meantime they are a moot point toward the vetting process.
 

L.T. Fan

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What don't you understand?

Nobody has a clear understanding of Trumps business interest yet you were claiming people in washington had seen everything.

You said.



Wrong again.
You don't think the IRS is a government entity? They are the only ones that require them. It not a rule that anyone have a handle on Trumps matters except those that are required to do so. Because the public can't see his financial records is of no consequence.
 

townsend

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So now Trump is having a twitter rant attacking the legitimacy of the election he won. Good thing he doesn't have anything more important to do.

One has to wonder what a loss in 2020 will look like when the sitting president refuses to accept the outcome.
 

2233boys

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You don't think the IRS is a government entity? They are the only ones that require them. It not a rule that anyone have a handle on Trumps matters except those that are required to do so. Because the public can't see his financial records is of no consequence.
Just that it frames the argument, like the Clinton's, that he is hiding something.
 

2233boys

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So now Trump is having a twitter rant attacking the legitimacy of the election he won. Good thing he doesn't have anything more important to do.

One has to wonder what a loss in 2020 will look like when the sitting president refuses to accept the outcome.
I think he will pull an LBJ and drop out during the Primary or make up some asinine reason for not running for reelection, after having the single worst presidency in the history of the country.
 

L.T. Fan

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Just that it frames the argument, like the Clinton's, that he is hiding something.
Well he isn't hiding anything about his tax returns so far as the government is concerned because they are with the IRS being audited. The question is I guess does he have a right to retain privacy about his tax returns the same as any other citizen. Some would argue that he should disclose them because Presidents before him have done so. Others would say he has the same rights to privacy as anyone else. He is opting to keep them private at this time with a caveat that when the audit is complete he will disclose them. That's about all there is to it for now. As to whether he is hiding something, that seems far fetched since his returns are in the hands of the IRS.
 

townsend

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I think he will pull an LBJ and drop out during the Primary or make up some asinine reason for not running for reelection, after having the single worst presidency in the history of the country.
I dunno. Trump never dropped out of the race because campaigning was his favorite part, frankly I think it's more likely that his fat ass dies of a stroke, or he gets impeached after the 2018 midterm.
 

2233boys

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Well he isn't hiding anything about his tax returns so far as the government is concerned because they are with the IRS being audited. The question is I guess does he have a right to retain privacy about his tax returns the same as any other citizen. Some would argue that he should disclose them because Presidents before him have done so. Others would say he has the same rights to privacy as anyone else. He is opting to keep them private at this time with a caveat that when the audit is complete he will disclose them. That's about all there is to it for now. As to whether he is hiding something, that seems far fetched since his returns are in the hands of the IRS.
He most certainly is hiding his returns from the American people by not sharing them and he has changed the bar. Some of his past returns aren't under audit. He still hasn't released them. He is the only president since Nixon not to release any returns.

There are a lot of unanswered questions by his refusal to release his returns. That leads people to distrust what he is saying or hiding something.

You're unbelievable, if he told you his piss was lemonade you'd drink up and ask for a second helping
 

L.T. Fan

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He most certainly is hiding his returns from the American people by not sharing them and he has changed the bar. Some of his past returns aren't under audit. He still hasn't released them. He is the only president since Nixon not to release any returns.

His real worth, charitable contributions, the amount he paid in taxes are all questions, etc. all unanswered by his refusal.

You're unbelievable, if he told you his piss was lemonade you'd drink up and ask for a second helping
He is not required to disclose his returns anymore than you are. It's his prerogative in the same way that it is yours. Just because it doesn't suit your agenda doesn't mean things are not on the up and up as far as the rules are concerned It isn't hiding if it is not required to disclose. Your rant and personal attacks are clear indications of a sour grapes attitude.
 

townsend

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He most certainly is hiding his returns from the American people by not sharing them and he has changed the bar. Some of his past returns aren't under audit. He still hasn't released them. He is the only president since Nixon not to release any returns.

There are a lot of unanswered questions by his refusal to release his returns. That leads people to distrust what he is saying or hiding something.

You're unbelievable, if he told you his piss was lemonade you'd drink up and ask for a second helping
It should be noted that he's the only president since before Nixon to release his tax returns. Because Nixon said it was important for the American people to know their president isn't a crook. Clearly LT disagrees with that sentiment.
 

L.T. Fan

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It should be noted that he's the only president since before Nixon to release his tax returns. Because Nixon said it was important for the American people to know their president isn't a crook. Clearly LT disagrees with that sentiment.
I disagree with the idea that anyone should not be afforded their right to exercise their legal prerogatives. If there are descreprencies in his returns then the IRS will make him aware and if it is something that needs to be investigated it will be referred to the Justice Department. There is nothing in the precidence of those who have disclosed tha negates anyone's right to not make them private.
 

E_D_Guapo

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I disagree with the idea that anyone should not be afforded their right to exercise their legal prerogatives. If there are descreprencies in his returns then the IRS will make him aware and if it is something that needs to be investigated it will be referred to the Justice Department. There is nothing in the precidence of those who have disclosed tha negates anyone's right to not make them private.
How do you feel about the president elect making baseless claims that there were millions of illegal votes cast for Hillary Clinton and that he actually won the popular vote? He stated this as though it is a fact, when there is no evidence to support his claim.
 

townsend

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I disagree with the idea that anyone should not be afforded their right to exercise their legal prerogatives. If there are descreprencies in his returns then the IRS will make him aware and if it is something that needs to be investigated it will be referred to the Justice Department. There is nothing in the precidence of those who have disclosed tha negates anyone's right to not make them private.
So if something is legal, does that always make it okay?

If the president is exempted from conflict of interest laws, does that mean he can't have a conflict of interest?
 

L.T. Fan

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How do you feel about the president elect making baseless claims that there were millions of illegal votes cast for Hillary Clinton and that he actually won the popular vote? He stated this as though it is a fact, when there is no evidence to support his claim.
Haven't thought about it nor do I know much about it. Is it your contention that politicians have to have a basis for their statements?
 

L.T. Fan

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So if something is legal, does that always make it okay?

If the president is exempted from conflict of interest laws, does that mean he can't have a conflict of interest?
No it does not. I posted a link to conflicts of interests . Back up and read it.
 
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