10 dead in Oregon Community College shooting

Cowboysrock55 said:

I wish I had the solution. I know it's not really fair for me to sit here and shoot down ideas as bad but then not propose my own solution but I really don't have one. All I know is that if what we are trying to stop is people murdering other people with firearms the solution isn't to make guns illegal for a certain percentage of a population. The last thing someone who is committing murder is worried about is being caught possessing a fire arm illegally. Obviously if you are willing to risk the death sentence to commit murder, no sentence for possessing the fire arm will deter you.

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This is the end of the discussion of banning guns. It really is that simple. Now, you can still (legitamitely) argue about more comprehensive background checks all you want, but when it come down to banning guns it comes down to this. It won't stop criminals from getting them.

I know a guy who was a high school principal. He gave me my first teaching job. He was an impressive guy. He was a vet, spoke 3 languages, really well thought of in the district. He fell asleep at the wheel with no alcohol in his system and T-boned a car crossing the highway coming back from his vacation to start that school year. He ended up doing felony time for vehicular manslaughter at Telford Unit, a hardcore East Texas max farm. I wouldn't send him to prison for life if he went out hunting now that he's out.

Iamtdg said:

The guns are mostly manufactured over seas. That article doesn't say shit about where they are mostly produced. Regard, that's not the over-arching point. Who gives a shit where they originally come from. the point is that if you make guns illegal you will be greatly reducing the revenue flow of gun traffickers in this country. Criminals will get the guns while law abiding citizens wouldn't even know the first step to obtain an illegal gun.

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Man you are still way off of guns were illegal (which I don't advocate) they would be 100 times harder to get into the united states its not very hard to get a license to sell guns and get them delivered here currently.

And it's not hard to buy those guns and sell them to in disreputable ways.

Yes guns would still be available but they would cost much more and the supply would go way down, guns are some of the hardest things to smuggle.

townsend said:

As a person who's been through many background checks, I've never had to disclose any medical records. Moreso HIPAA makes it illegal for any company to use your medical records in a background check or any healthcare provider to disclose them. Finally when we're talking about the government they have to satisfy an even higher criteria for these kinds of searches into your private medical history since they're the only institution bound by the 4th amendment.

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Never said there were not restrictions just pointing out that they can be obtained.

And this is really talking in circles because as with any records a person would have to consent as a part of obtaining a gun.

4th amendment is not specific to mental records and many jobs have some type of mental health screening.

Iamtdg said:

This is the end of the discussion of banning guns. It really is that simple. Now, you can still (legitamitely) argue about more comprehensive background checks all you want, but when it come down to banning guns it comes down to this. It won't stop criminals from getting them.

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Good thing nobody in this discussion has advocated banning guns right?

Clay_Allison said:

I know a guy who was a high school principal. He gave me my first teaching job. He was an impressive guy. He was a vet, spoke 3 languages, really well thought of in the district. He fell asleep at the wheel with no alcohol in his system and T-boned a car crossing the highway coming back from his vacation to start that school year. He ended up doing felony time for vehicular manslaughter at Telford Unit, a hardcore East Texas max farm. I wouldn't send him to prison for life if he went out hunting now that he's out.

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I posted that I was not clear in my first couple posts...I meant to say violent felonies. Clearly, getting caught smoking dope or accidentally killing someone by falling asleep at the wheel should not be a reason to go to prison if your caught with a gun.

But, severe cases of domestic violence, rape, robbery, etc should absolutely be counted.

Jiggyfly said:

Never said there were not restrictions just pointing out that they can be obtained.

And this is really talking in circles because as with any records a person would have to consent as a part of obtaining a gun.

4th amendment is not specific to mental records and many jobs have some type of mental health screening.

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Screenings and records are entirely different. As a nation we have determined medical records are entirely private. If we have to offer up a private record, to which the government has no permission to access, to obtain a license then it's unconstitutional, because the gun ownership is recognized as a right in this country, not a privilege.

You can't force someone to give up their right to privacy in exchange for their right to bear arms, that's not how rights work.

UncleMilti said:

I posted that I was not clear in my first couple posts...I meant to say violent felonies. Clearly, getting caught smoking dope or accidentally killing someone by falling asleep at the wheel should not be a reason to go to prison if your caught with a gun.

But, severe cases of domestic violence, rape, robbery, etc should absolutely be counted.

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Speaking truthfully, I don't know why we let violent offenders back out of prison.

Cowboysrock55 said:

I wish I had the solution. I know it's not really fair for me to sit here and shoot down ideas as bad but then not propose my own solution but I really don't have one. All I know is that if what we are trying to stop is people murdering other people with firearms the solution isn't to make guns illegal for a certain percentage of a population. The last thing someone who is committing murder is worried about is being caught possessing a fire arm illegally. Obviously if you are willing to risk the death sentence to commit murder, no sentence for possessing the fire arm will deter you.

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Again...criminals have no reason to fear the justice system. There are already laws on the books to send felons convicted of a crime with a handgun and who are caught again with a handgun to prison. Problem is, they are turned free on probation or its plea bargained out and they are set free with a slap on the wrist. The little girl who was killed in Chicago a couple years ago was shot by a gangbanger who had been released on probation like THREE fucking times after being charged with being a violent felon with a gun. I bet her parents would have loved a life in prison sentence for that asshole.

Thousands of these criminals are caught, serve minimal time then are right back out on the street. Even committing murder these days guarantees a cushy 20 year stay with 3 meals a day and cable TV before you even have to worry about facing the Reaper.

No one will ever convince me that a mandatory life in prison sentence for being caught with a firearm if convicted of a violent crime, and a 12 month maximum appeal time for death row wouldn't do SOMETHING. Anything is better than nothing.

townsend said:

Speaking truthfully, I don't know why we let violent offenders back out of prison.

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There was a time in my life where I would have agreed with you. There is such a wide range of violent crimes that all fall under the same definition though. For example I handle a ton of assault cases. On one hand you'll see a Class A Felony assault (the worst kind) where a guy breaks multiple bones in a girls face and does horrific things. You'll then see a case where a guy punches a person, they fall down and hit their head wrong and suddenly you're also dealing with a Class A Felony assault. Now you might be thinking that prosecuting attorneys will just be reasonable about it but some aren't. The statute it what the statute is. The guy who punched someone while they were aggressively approaching them should not in any way be put in prison for life. The other one may be different. Doing criminal defense work, you really see first hand how crazy different one criminal charged with the same crime can be from another criminal.

Jiggyfly said:

Man you are still way off of guns were illegal (which I don't advocate) they would be 100 times harder to get into the united states its not very hard to get a license to sell guns and get them delivered here currently.

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Yeah, because shipping drugs into this country is so tough since they are illegal.

NoDak said:

Yeah, because shipping drugs into this country is so tough since they are illegal.

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The war on drugs is working!!!!

The apparent online writings of the mother of the man who killed nine people at a community college in Oregon discuss guns and the autism spectrum, painting a partial picture of the environment the family lived in, their beliefs and the challenges they faced.

Online posts linked to Laurel Harper, mother of the gunman, are limited and incomplete, but they seem to indicate two things: that her son, Chris Harper-Mercer, had a developmental disorder, and that the family had a familiarity with firearms and gun laws.

Laurel Harper's apparent online writings come in the form of posts to several websites, usually about health topics. The bulk of the postings were on forums such as Yahoo! Answers and comments on NurseTogether.

Public records link Harper to the same email address used in these posts from a Yahoo! user calling herself "Tweety Bird."

The postings, first reported by The New York Times, make references to Harper having a son who has a disorder on the autism spectrum and of the family having strong pro-gun views.

In response to a question posted on Yahoo! Answers three years ago, the account linked to Harper complains about "lame states" that consider a loaded magazine inside the home the same as having a loaded gun.

"I keep all my mags full. I keep two full mags in my Glock case. And the ARs & AKs all have loaded mags. No one will be 'dropping' by my house uninvited without (acknowledgment)," the user Tweety Bird wrote.
Who were the victims?

In another post, answering a hypothetical question of how gunmen might be charged and sentenced, Tweety Bird argues which gun laws would apply, citing "my son, who has much knowledge in this field."

That post was from six years ago.



According to the Los Angeles Times, the father Ian Mercer and Harper were married in 1989 and separated after 11 months. They divorced in 2006 and had joint custody of their son.

Ian Mercer said the son had lived with his mother. They moved to Oregon about two years ago.
Oregon shooter's dad: 'That's what guns are, the killers'

Advice on medical issues

The majority of the online posts linked to Harper, however, are not about guns or politics or law. She describes herself as a nurse, and mostly offers advice or expertise on health issues.

State records show that Laurel Harper is a licensed practical nurse in Oregon.

When strangers ask about a sore arm after getting multiple vaccines or taking vital signs or how to fill out nursing forms, Tweety Bird is generous with her responses.
Oregon shooting hero tells gunman, 'It's my son's birthday today'

Tweety Bird often shares her email address -- the one public records link to Harper -- in these posts, encouraging those with questions to reach out to her directly for additional guidance.

One area she claims expertise in is autism.

In several posts, she makes references to having Asperger syndrome, considered to be on the high-functioning end of the autism spectrum. She also makes references to her son having the same developmental disorder.

While dispensing advice on handling anxiety five years ago, Harper purportedly wrote online that "I have Asperger's and I didn't do so bad. Wasn't easy (understatement) but it can be done."

Umpqua college shooting: Frantic students hid behind backpacks, chairs

In other online posts, she appears to share that "I also have an Asperger's kid," and that "my son has Asperger's. He's no babbling idiot nor is his life worthless. He's very intelligent and is working on a career in filmmaking. My 18 years worth of experience with and knowledge about Asperger's syndrome is paying off."

The account linked to Harper also makes reference to her son having been "a headbanger" as a kid, as she dispensed advice on how to deal with a child who might injure himself.

Multiple attempts by CNN to reach Harper have been unsuccessful.

Autism spectrum disorders can cause significant social impairments, communication problems and restricted, repetitive behavior patterns. But studies have shown there is no direct link between Asperger's and violence. The question was also raised three years ago, after Adam Lanza, who was said to have Asperger's, killed 26 children and adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

townsend said:

Speaking truthfully, I don't know why we let violent offenders back out of prison.

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I do. As someone who has worked in a prison for a long time, I can say that a guy who was 18 and committed a crime 20 years ago is, at 38, nothing like the guy he used to be when he was 18.

Clay_Allison said:

I do. As someone who has worked in a prison for a long time, I can say that a guy who was 18 and committed a crime 20 years ago is, at 38, nothing like the guy he used to be when he was 18.

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But, do they have any hope of any kind of normal life? Even if they leave prison as model citizens they're almost completely unemployable.

townsend said:

But, do they have any hope of any kind of normal life? Even if they leave prison as model citizens they're almost completely unemployable.

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Construction crews will hire just about anyone willing to work. Unfortunately many American's don't want to do that kind of work.

townsend said:

But, do they have any hope of any kind of normal life? Even if they leave prison as model citizens they're almost completely unemployable.

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They may not go on to be rich but working at Denny's as a fry cook is better than being in prison.

Clay_Allison said:

They may not go on to be rich but working at Denny's as a fry cook is better than being in prison.

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What are the stats now on released prisoners becoming repeat offenders and returning? It used to be pretty high.

NoDak said:

Yeah, because shipping drugs into this country is so tough since they are illegal.

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Yeah drugs and guns take up the same space and weight.

People who own guns think that gun control is the way you handle your weapon.