Joel Osteen's church theft opens can of worms: Jaws drop as folks do the math

skidadl said:

What is crazy is when you hear about intelligent successful people who get caught up in various scams. It is ridiculous to see.

I read a story a while back about a successful person got caught up in a Nigerian scam of some sort and lost a few hundred thousand. That just blows my mind.

Using religion is the lowest of lows though.

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Smart people are the best at talking themselves into things, and using mental acrobatics to convince themselves it wasn't a mistake.

L.T. Fan said:

It's a comparison of a person's right to choose what and how much they are willing to pay for something. It doesn't matter what it is whether it's a feeling or something tangible.

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We aren't talking about rights we are talking about morals.

skidadl said:

Dude, I don't know why you continue to do jiggy-ish type shit on the regular. I told you that I don't know much about him, so I can't defend him. So insinuating that I think
"whatta great guy" is total BS meant to paint a picture that I never did. I was just generally asking what the problem was with what he is doing. Like, what specifically did he do to piss people off more than what other motivational speakers or entertainers do.



What does that even mean? You walk in that place that he preaches and know that wealth is being received. Guise make me think that some feel that he is deceiving people. I don't think that is the case at all. Again, I don't know much about him other than he is the feel-good-guy and people like to feel encouraged.

Is there a reason that people feel that ministers would be poor? That's the general idea that I'm getting here.


BTW, I'm not an Olsteen supporter or follower. I'm just spitballing.

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First of all, how do you not know what my comment means? It's pretty freaking obvious.Yes it is deceptive. Duh.

Second of all, I don't think anyone ever said that preachers have to be. I haven't seen anyone in this thread say that. I certainly have not said that. But are you honestly telling me that you don't understand that there is a middle ground between dirt poor and Bill Gates rich?

Clay_Allison said:

Osteen to me is just like Tim Robbins or any successful motivational speaker. I don't watch his act but I don't think he does that "promising faith healing if you send enough cash" nonsense. It's annoying that a little bit of charisma and playing to an audience of suckers is enough to get you paid like a rockstar, but that's the case inside and outside of religion.

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Joel is the poster child for the 'prosperity gospel' feel-good movement. Like you said, he's primarily a motivational speaker masquerading as a pastor.

L.T. Fan said:

So what's the answer? All one can do is have their own choices of what is the worst of the worst.

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The answer to what? How to stop it? It would be very difficult to do that. I guess maybe I should just not have any compassion or give a shit about it. No one is putting a gun to these people's heads afterall.

You are a Christian, right? Does it not bother you that scum like Robert Tilton, et al are making tons of money in the name of Christianity when they are doing nothing but peddling lies?

Genghis Khan said:

We aren't talking about rights we are talking about morals.

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Thank you.

E_D_Guapo said:

Thank you.

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Then I will repost this. I will be a lot more pissed at a garage telling me I needed a car part, charging me for it then not installing it than I will for a pastor telling me I might receive a blessing for donating. Does that fit the morals criteria?

I'd be more upset at someone claiming to be a pastor manipulating the Bible in order to make money, especially oftentimes off of vulnerable people.

Genghis Khan said:

First of all, how do you not know what my comment means? It's pretty freaking obvious.Yes it is deceptive. Duh.

Second of all, I don't think anyone ever said that preachers have to be. I haven't seen anyone in this thread say that. I certainly have not said that. But are you honestly telling me that you don't understand that there is a middle ground between dirt poor and Bill Gates rich?

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Maybe we are misunderstand each other? I was making the point that donations to wealthy people are not all a trick. In Olsteen's case it seems like folks know what he is rich. They know that the church is giant and worth a bunch because it is the biggest church in America. It doesn't seem much like a deception to me. I don't see a "guise" at all. It is all out in the open from what I can tell.



Some of the wealth discussion for me is much about wondering why some feel that "servants of God" should be seen in an evil light because they are rich. What is the limit? Mega rich preachers are evil but top 5% are not? Or top 10%? 20%? What is the limit and why?

That's what I don't get. Everyone else is encouraged to be successful and rich expert ministers? I just don't get it.

I think it is really interesting what people's standards are for ministry. It is kinda cool how a person's experience and culture impacts their religion. What is even more interesting is how those that want nothing to do with church have opinions on how the church should run. I'm sure that some will take this as smart assed but I really do think it is interesting.

VA Cowboy said:

I'd be more upset at someone claiming to be a pastor manipulating the Bible in order to make money, especially oftentimes off of vulnerable people.

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In my prior example which one was the most manipulative?

VA Cowboy said:

I'd be more upset at someone claiming to be a pastor manipulating the Bible in order to make money, especially oftentimes off of vulnerable people.

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Sick burn!

L.T. Fan said:

In my prior example which one was the most manipulative?

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Ewww, I don't know, buddy. Trying to measure the level of scumbagness is probably the wrong road to go down here.

From a biblical view most definitely the preacher.

skidadl said:

Sick burn!

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On who? I must have missed something.

Iamtdg said:

On who? I must have missed something.

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On anyone who disagrees with VA in his post.

skidadl said:

I don't have a problem with wealthy ministers. That is not the sin. The sin is the lies, the scams, the power hungry, the idiots...

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While I agree for the most part, I do think there is such a thing as having too much money like a Joel Osteen.

I consider myself to be a maturing Christian. I began going to church with the intention of becoming a Christian about 18 months ago. I've come a long way, but I still have a long way to go.

The reason I say that is because I don't pretend to have it all figured out and I may even be wrong or not completely understand what is and isn't acceptable in the eyes of the lord. So forgive me if I'm being ignorant here, but I don't care for the megachurch or for Joel Osteen claiming to be this God-fearing man who just wants to help people and spread the gospel.

Again, I don't have a problem with wealthy ministers. They have to earn a living too, and there isn't a more righteous thing that one can do for a living than to spread God's word and help others accept God. I think that's a great, and they too deserve to be compensated for that if that is what they are doing on a full time basis. But if you're truly in it for the lord, or your heart is pure, shouldn't you at some point stop accepting this outrageous amounts of money?

Once Joel Osteen became a millionaire, shouldn't he have stopped accepting lots of money or at least stop pocketing all of it to go and speak at places? I mean, you're doing it for God and all, aren't you? If you're doing it in the name of Jesus and to save people, then shouldn't you be doing that from the heart and without the need to be compensated? Especially if you've already got more money than you'll be able to spend?

Let's say someone wants to fly him out so he can speak. I don't think it's wrong to ask for the traveling expenses to be covered and for a donation to be made, but have it made to organizations or efforts that are proven to help people.

Instead of paying me 50K or whatever, how about I take 5 or 10K, and the other 40 you send to our efforts in Haiti, in Africa, in the Middle East where those of Christian faith are executed.

That to me is how business should now be conducted by the Osteen's now that they are so well off. But that's not how they're doing it, is it? Whatever service Joel Osteen provides, he and he alone is compensated for it and it goes straight into his bank account. That to me is wrong and I just don't agree with it.

Am I wrong for thinking this way?

skidadl said:

On anyone who disagrees with VA in his post.

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Was he referring to a specific pastor, because I ain't gettin' it.

skidadl said:

Ewww, I don't know, buddy. Trying to measure the level of scumbagness is probably the wrong road to go down here.

From a biblical view most definitely the preacher.

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May be but it's the road that has been dictated by those who choose to lump religious organizations into being the worst of scumbags. I am merely trying to bring them.up to an equal level that would at least give them parity. I know I can't prevail trying to set them apart as being better with this crowd.

Iamtdg said:

Was he referring to a specific pastor, because I ain't gettin' it.

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Any of them that manipulate to make money.

Iamtdg said:

Was he referring to a specific pastor, because I ain't gettin' it.

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Nor am I because I didn't include a manipulative pastor in the mix. The example was a pastor who felt a donation may become a blessing.

VA Cowboy said:

Any of them that manipulate to make money.

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Not understanding how this is a sick burn.... and I have this weird feeling this is leading into a religious debate.