The Great Police Work Thread

fortsbest

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I think you'd make a great criminal defense attorney! :towel Imagine what would happen if you thought this way about all those people who get arrested?
I will never go to the dark side! :buddy

And actually, Unless I am directly involved in a case where i have all the relevant information or am privy to the evidence, I truly try to do that. Typically I don't really care. All I can can do is what I can do and then it is up for the courts to settle it out. If someone does commit a crime and gets away with it, chances are it won't be the last, and if it is the last then bully for them.
 

Jiggyfly

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Prosecutors: No retrial for white officer who shot black man
Associated Press
Associated Press
GARY D. ROBERTSON, Associated Press
23 hrs ago


RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — North Carolina state prosecutors announced Friday that they won't retry a white police officer who fatally shot an unarmed black man, saying that talking with jurors after the mistrial helped convince them they cannot get a conviction.

The jury deadlocked 8-4 last week in favor of acquitting Charlotte-Mecklenburg Officer Randall Kerrick, leading the judge to declare a mistrial. Kerrick was charged with voluntary manslaughter in the September 2013 death of Jonathan Ferrell, a former college football player.

"In consideration of the jurors' comments, the evidence available to the state, and our background in criminal trials, it is our prosecutors' unanimous belief a retrial will not yield a different result," Senior Deputy Attorney General Robert Montgomery told the Mecklenburg County district attorney.

Police say Ferrell wrecked his car on the morning of Sept. 14, 2013, and went to a nearby house and banged on the door, apparently seeking help. The resident called police, and three officers, including Kerrick, responded.

Investigators say one deployed his Taser without apparent effect on Ferrell before Kerrick fired 12 shots, 10 of which hit him.

Kerrick testified that he repeatedly fired because Ferrell kept charging at him and that he didn't think his weapon was even working.

Prosecutors said nonlethal force should have been used to subdue Ferrell, who played football at Florida A&M University. The two officers with Kerrick didn't fire their guns.


After three weeks of testimony and four days of deliberations, the jury couldn't overcome its deadlock, leading Judge Robert C. Ervin to declare the mistrial.

"Our prosecutors believe they were able to introduce the relevant evidence and examine the witnesses, including the defendant, appropriately and that the jury fully considered the details of the case," Montgomery wrote. "However, meeting the standard of proof of beyond a reasonable doubt could not be achieved."

The Ferrell family has already settled a lawsuit with the city of Charlotte, receiving $2.25 million. Suspended without pay from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department, Kerrick has been free on bond.

It took two grand juries to indict Kerrick. The first refused to do so, suggesting prosecutors seek a lesser charge. But Attorney General Roy Cooper's office, which handled the case, tried again. The 14-4 vote by jurors to indict met the minimum needed to keep the charge against the officer.

The Aug. 21 mistrial led to protests, as some demonstrators lay in the middle of the street soon after the trial ended. Dozens gathered that evening near Charlotte's minor league baseball stadium as a game was in progress, and later some protesters walked through the city and shouted. Police officers stopped the protesters at one point from entering a covered transit center.
 

Cotton

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Sounds like he charged the cop, and they tried to use non-lethal force before escalating the issue. Doesn't seem to be any foul play here. Move along.
 

Jiggyfly

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Sounds like he charged the cop, and they tried to use non-lethal force before escalating the issue. Doesn't seem to be any foul play here. Move along.


Sounds like is enough for you to move along, 8 people thought he was guilty so he was not found innocent.

And the sad part here is that now charging a cop is grounds for lethal force in your mind, how can a life mean that little to you?
 

Cotton

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Sounds like is enough for you to move along, 8 people thought he was guilty so he was not found innocent.

And the sad part here is that now charging a cop is grounds for lethal force in your mind, how can a life mean that little to you?
Dude, they tried to tazer him first and it didn't stop him. They have every right to escalate the situation if non-lethal means don't resolve the threat.

Oh, and 4 people found him innocent, so in our court system, the jury found him not guilty. Innocent until proven guilty.
 

townsend

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It sure is convenient for cops when they're the only ones who can tell the story. Cops, just like the mob, benefit from victims who can't testify.
 

Cotton

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It sure is convenient for cops when they're the only ones who can tell the story. Cops, just like the mob, benefit from victims who can't testify.
You don't figure those people that called the cops weren't looking out their windows when this went down? Quite sure there would be witnesses.
 

townsend

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You don't figure those people that called the cops weren't looking out their windows when this went down? Quite sure there would be witnesses.
Fuck, after I see anyone shoot someone 10 times, I'm likely to agree with them. But seriously these guys called the cops because there was a scary black man outside, do you think they could legitimately be considered unbiased? And even if it was guys showing up and tazering/shooting a desperate/disoriented man who'd just been in a car wreck, would they have been able to pick that out in the middle of all the gunshots, confusion, and adrenaline in the middle of the night, through a window?
 

Cotton

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Fuck, after I see anyone shoot someone 10 times, I'm likely to agree with them. But seriously these guys called the cops because there was a scary black man outside, do you think they could legitimately be considered unbiased?
So, you're saying that the innocent citizens would just agree to testify in court because they would be afraid that they would be next? :lol God damn, man.

And even if it was guys showing up and tazering/shooting a desperate/disoriented man who'd just been in a car wreck, would they have been able to pick that out in the middle of all the gunshots, confusion, and adrenaline in the middle of the night, through a window?
Pretty sure they would know if the dude was charging the cop, yeah.
 

Jiggyfly

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Dude, they tried to tazer him first and it didn't stop him. They have every right to escalate the situation if non-lethal means don't resolve the threat.

Oh, and 4 people found him innocent, so in our court system, the jury found him not guilty. Innocent until proven guilty.
Dude it was 3 cops they are trained to subdue people without using lethal force and because someone supposedly charging you does not put your life at risk.

The fact that you think coming at an officer justifies shooting somebody is sickening, what if that person is mentally unstable, should they just put them down because they won't stop?
 

townsend

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I spent a total of 4 weeks in reaction force training with the navy to aid Master at Arms with their watch standing. Admittedly during drills I was one of the few people who didn't immediately reach for the weapon for situations like "protester" or "two guys in fist fight."

How bad are police academies that "charging guy" is seen the same as guy with lethal weapon?

Personally the "charging guy" story seems dubious to me. Personally I don't think cops deserve the benefit of the doubt with lethal force used against unarmed people anymore. That privilege has been abused way too much.
 

townsend

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So, you're saying that the innocent citizens would just agree to testify in court because they would be afraid that they would be next? :lol God damn, man.



Pretty sure they would know if the dude was charging the cop, yeah.
The shots thing was a bit of a joke. Although if I'm scared of cops this definitely intensifies that. I would definitely think twice about testifying against them.

In violent situations people usually end up siding with the most positive voices, and hazy memories will rewright themselves around that. Even moreso if that voice happens to be in authority.
 
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Cotton

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Dude it was 3 cops they are trained to subdue people without using lethal force and because someone supposedly charging you does not put your life at risk.
They tried to tazer him first. I know you're an idiot, but surely you can read that sentence.

The fact that you think coming at an officer justifies shooting somebody is sickening, what if that person is mentally unstable, should they just put them down because they won't stop?
So, n cop should just wait to diagnose a person as unstable before they take action in a split second situation? And, yes, they should if they won't stop. No doubt in my mind. 100% on the time.
 

fortsbest

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They tried to tazer him first. I know you're an idiot, but surely you can read that sentence.



So, n cop should just wait to diagnose a person as unstable before they take action in a split second situation? And, yes, they should if they won't stop. No doubt in my mind. 100% on the time.
Do you see why I quit trying? Everyone who has never done the job is an expert in what we are trained to do, or how people behave the way they do, or anything else that ever has anything to do with police work. I can't wait until we start a "great doctor work thread" or a "great lawyer work thread". then (except for those that actually are) the real medical and legal pros will come out. :picard
 

Cotton

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Do you see why I quit trying? Everyone who has never done the job is an expert in what we are trained to do, or how people behave the way they do, or anything else that ever has anything to do with police work. I can't wait until we start a "great doctor work thread" or a "great lawyer work thread". then (except for those that actually are) the real medical and legal pros will come out. :picard
Don't fret these fools.They have no clue what it feels like to fear for your life on a daily basis. They think it's as easy as "hey stop, big guy" and you're headed to get doughnuts and coffee. They have no idea. I, for one, appreciate what you do. Keep up the good work.
 

townsend

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Do you see why I quit trying? Everyone who has never done the job is an expert in what we are trained to do, or how people behave the way they do, or anything else that ever has anything to do with police work. I can't wait until we start a "great doctor work thread" or a "great lawyer work thread". then (except for those that actually are) the real medical and legal pros will come out. :picard
I'm sure it's not fun to be the resident cop on any kind of board discussing police brutality. For what it's worth my experience with FWPD has been pretty positive so far.
 

townsend

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Don't fret these fools.They have no clue what it feels like to fear for your life on a daily basis. They think it's as easy as "hey stop, big guy" and you're headed to get doughnuts and coffee. They have no idea. I, for one, appreciate what you do. Keep up the good work.
If cops are seriously afraid for their lives on a daily basis, there is a serious issue there. I've worked in relatively dangerous fields (the oil industry, and as an electrician) My current job accounts for about 160 annual deaths, that's just below annual Cop fatality rate (but there are quite a few less electricians than cops). If someone came to my job, afraid for his life every day. I'd tell him to quit.
 
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Jiggyfly

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They tried to tazer him first. I know you're an idiot, but surely you can read that sentence.



So, n cop should just wait to diagnose a person as unstable before they take action in a split second situation? And, yes, they should if they won't stop. No doubt in my mind. 100% on the time.
You habe no clue what the overall guidelines of use of force, if the person is unarmed you have to be activley engaged to use lethal force and even then you have to be in fear of bodily injury, since when should a cop feel this way because somebody is coming toward them?

They are trained to disable people in these situations and in this instance there were 3 cops and 2 never drew there weapons, this is a human life not a wild aninal.

Here are the guidlines for use of lethal force if there was never bodily contact how was it justified?

http://what-when-how.com/police-science/deadly-force-police/

Supreme Court Intervention: Nondeadly Force

Officers must be able to distinguish between nondeadly and deadly force. In police street confrontations this is no easy task, especially when dealing with intense emotional situations. Generally, nondeadly force requires nondeadly strategies; for example, when a citizen engages in passive resistance during a demonstration, generally two officers simply restrain and handcuff the individual and place him or her in the police van to be transported to jail.

Active resistance requires the appropriate level of force for the situation; for example, if a suspect tears the badge off the officer’s uniform, the officer may respond with a nondeadly physical response that requires restraining techniques. If the resistance continues to escalate, the officer’s response may include the use of mace, a nightstick, or other nondeadly strategies. However, after the subject is subdued, a nondeadly or deadly force response would not be appropriate. Once resistance ceases and the subject is handcuffed, the use of additional force would be illegal.

A scenario involving nondeadly force may escalate to deadly force under certain circumstances; for example, an offender may attempt to seize the arresting officer’s weapon during a struggle. What appears to be a nonviolent situation can quickly turn into a deadly force incident. Consider, for example, the following scenario: An off-duty officer responds to a scene of disorderly conduct, identifies himself as a police officer, and attempts to detain one of the suspects. The officer enters into a physical struggle with the suspect, now the arrestee, who soon overpowers and begins to strangle the officer. The officer starts to lose consciousness and fears that he may lose his weapon and die in the struggle. In the twilight of semiconscious, the officer reaches for his revolver, shoots the resisting subject, who falls over and dies.

As noted above, deadly force is appropriate if the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses significant threat of death or serious physical injury to officers or others. In addition, the severity of the crime, uncertain conditions or rapidly evolving circumstances, and a suspect actively resisting arrest may enter into the ”objective reasonableness” standard. In other words, the Court views the situation from the officer’s perspective, evaluating the objective reasonableness of the officer’s response to the unfolding events.

Directly related to the police deadly force issue is nondeadly force, occasionally interconnected and evolving from the same scenario. In 1989, the issue of non-deadly force emerged in Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386. The U.S. Supreme Court established the standard of ”objective reasonableness” where the use of deadly force applied by an officer could be evaluated by the ”reasonableness at the moment.” The Court ruled that the evaluation of the decision to use force should be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, not with the benefit of retrospective analysis.

The following example from the case illustrates the objective reasonableness standard. The police officer focused on what he believed to be suspicious behavior.
If a person is charging a civilian I could understand deadly force but a police officer is trained in sel defense and has several other remedies to subdue a person, there was no bodily contact in this situation so the officer was never reasonably in fear of his life or bodily harm which was also illustrated by the fact no other officer drew there weapon.

If a person coming after you scares you that much you should never be a cop and why don't drunken people who resist arrest every weekend get shot for resisiting, since you believe that's a viable recourse?
 

Cotton

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Yeah, let him get right up on you and then try like an arm bar or something. This also allows the suspect to get within reach of your firearm. Sound tactics.
 

Cotton

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The U.S. Supreme Court established the standard of ”objective reasonableness” where the use of deadly force applied by an officer could be evaluated by the ”reasonableness at the moment.” The Court ruled that the evaluation of the decision to use force should be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, not with the benefit of retrospective analysis.

I notice you didn't bold this part.
 
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