Archer: Like Pats, Cowboys have to do more with less

Smitty

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After all this then I gather your position is that his inability to have a better showing in Dallas is due to Jerry Jones. You seem to think he would do better elsewhere and a lot of us want him elsewhere so the solution for both Dallas and Garrett is go elsewhere. Can I hear it for Garrett going elsewhere? On my mark........
Yes, you've heard many times I think he should be replaced, if you've been following.
 

NoDak

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I've given just as much "tangible proof" as you have to show he's in the bottom third.
No. You haven't. You talk in circles about accountability and the like. Kind of like a Garrett press conference.

The proof of his being inept is splashed across the highlight shows every Sunday night.

Also, I have not once said he "Is the worst in the league". Making shit up is a sure sign of somebody that doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. Desperation. Being a punchline has to really suck.
 

midswat

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Possibly, but our retard puts him and every coach in impossible to succeed positions, too, which again, is another reason you must take into account that he looks worse here than he would anywhere else.
So Jerry Jones being the GM is what prevented Jason Garrett from understanding he needed to run out the clock, 2nd half against the Packers?

Oh.
 

Smitty

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I'd take Zimmer here right now as HC. Anyone really. At least you get a sliver of hope with a new HC. I think Zimmer's no nonsense approach would be a breath of fresh air around here after years of Wade and Red.
Garrett's already a no-nonsense coach who isn't able to follow through on his policies due to the circus.

Zimmer wouldn't be any better at instilling discipline here.
 

Smitty

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So Jerry Jones being the GM is what prevented Jason Garrett from understanding he needed to run out the clock, 2nd half against the Packers?

Oh.
No, that is his own fault which merits him being replaced.

By someone good enough to make a difference and not some other flavor of the month who will fail. Not just any coach is going to be better.
 

NoDak

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Garrett's a no nonsense coach.

Grrr.

Whotta hardass.


:lol
 

Smitty

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No. You haven't.
Yes, I have, since you've offered no proof that he's one of the worst in the league.

The proof of his being inept is splashed across the highlight shows every Sunday night.
What, his game mismanagement? That's one factor. There are other things he does well.

Where's this "proof" that he's one of the worst though? 2-3 badly managed games last year doesn't prove he is one of the worst in the league.

Oh... you have no proof as well.

Also, I have not once said he "Is the worst in the league".
Oh, so you agree with me that he's not one of the worst in the league?

Good.

We agree that he's simply not good enough but not one of the worst in the league then.

Being a punchline has to really suck.
I dunno, does it?
 

midswat

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No, that is his own fault which merits him being replaced.

By someone good enough to make a difference and not some other flavor of the month who will fail. Not just any coach is going to be better.
I agree with that. You'll have to excuse me. I havent' read this whole thread. Just assumed you were one of those defend Garrett at all ends types.

Personally, I think Garrett is hot garbage in way over his head. Jerry Jones sucks, but I'm not of the belief that Jerry is holding back Garrett from being some coaching savant.
 

NoDak

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Where's this "proof" that he's one of the worst though? 2-3 badly managed games last year doesn't prove he is one of the worst in the league.
Nice try. Just 2-3 games last year, huh? Guess we should just forget all his time here before this last year. That might help. Noticed you tried to shift back to "one of" again. Damage control...?

Oh, so you agree with me that he's not one of the worst in the league?
No. I don't. I only said I never claimed he was THE worst, as you tried pinning on me a couple posts above. A puddle of shit is worse than a dry turd. But they are both still shit.


I dunno, does it?
Sad deflection attempt. I'm not the one where practically every person on this board has made fun of for everything from a to z. Hmmm.... Wonder who that could be.
 

Smitty

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I agree with that. You'll have to excuse me. I havent' read this whole thread. Just assumed you were one of those defend Garrett at all ends types.

Personally, I think Garrett is hot garbage in way over his head. Jerry Jones sucks, but I'm not of the belief that Jerry is holding back Garrett from being some coaching savant.
The debate you stepped into involves some people who have a history since Day 1 of blowing Garrett's faults way out of proportion and saying he's one of the worst coaches in the league. I don't think that's true, and there was a time I thought he could become a pretty good coach under the circumstances (being, he has to deal with Jerry and thus will never truly be a winner since no one can really succeed under Jerry).

3.5 seasons has shown Garrett isn't good enough and is not really getting better at the areas that he's cost us the most in. He's not going to develop into a guy that can deal with Jerry's incompetence, and he's not good enough on his own to overcome it like a Parcells was. So the search begins for a franchise-manager type HC. I'm on board with that.

This debate rages on, though, because he's still had some success as a coach and there are things he does very well that no one wants to acknowledge, and I'm not going to pretend he's one of the worst coaches in the league to justify firing him for just anybody.

We need a legit upgrade and everyone is on board with that.

Some people feel the need to play down his abilities though so that hiring someone from this shitty coaching crop would be justified, and that's just not the case.
 

Smitty

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Nice try. Just 2-3 games last year, huh? Guess we should just forget all his time here before this last year. That might help. Noticed you tried to shift back to "one of" again. Damage control...?
Doesn't prove he's one of the worst coaches in the league.

Where's the proof? Oh.... you don't have any more than I do.

Proof that he's cost us games, which is not good enough, sure. Not proof of where he exactly ranks.

Sad deflection attempt. I'm not the one where practically every person on this board has made fun of for everything from a to z. Hmmm.... Wonder who that could be.
If I gave a shit what someone like you thought, that would be the only joke.
 

midswat

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The debate you stepped into involves some people who have a history since Day 1 of blowing Garrett's faults way out of proportion and saying he's one of the worst coaches in the league. I don't think that's true, and there was a time I thought he could become a pretty good coach under the circumstances (being, he has to deal with Jerry and thus will never truly be a winner since no one can really succeed under Jerry).

3.5 seasons has shown Garrett isn't good enough and is not really getting better at the areas that he's cost us the most in. He's not going to develop into a guy that can deal with Jerry's incompetence, and he's not good enough on his own to overcome it like a Parcells was. So the search begins for a franchise-manager type HC. I'm on board with that.

This debate rages on, though, because he's still had some success as a coach and there are things he does very well that no one wants to acknowledge, and I'm not going to pretend he's one of the worst coaches in the league to justify firing him for just anybody.

We need a legit upgrade and everyone is on board with that.

Some people feel the need to play down his abilities though so that hiring someone from this shitty coaching crop would be justified, and that's just not the case.
Oh.

Well... I tend to agree he's one of the worst coaches in the league.

By your own admission, his piss poor game management COST us 2-3 games this year.

Think about it... this isn't the NBA where there's 82 games.

His gaffes COST us 2-3 games alone. Just this year.

Outside of controlling the media and keeping his composure, I can't think of anything he really does well.

And this coming from a guy who loved the promotion to HC, and even thought taking playcalling would make him a better head coach as it would allow him to focus solely on game management.

The guy just sucks.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Garrett's already a no-nonsense coach who isn't able to follow through on his policies due to the circus.

Zimmer wouldn't be any better at instilling discipline here.
Zimmer doesn't have the proven track record of blunders in terms of clock management that Garrett has however. I think that's really your issue. Unless a coach has proven hiimself as a stud head coach you don't think he is an improvement on Garrett. I'd say any coach who respects balance and can bring discipline would be an improvement over Garrett. It's pretty easy to see those qualities through interviews without ever seeing that coach as a head coach.

I don't think you over inflate Garrett's value as a head coach, I think you just undervalue pretty much every other coaching possibility out there.
 

Cotton

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For all your bluster, and smoke and mirrors, you've never given any tangible things that show Garrett is better than the bottom 3rd of coaches. There is actual proof of his shittyness. The rest is all bullshit repeatedly spewed by somebody afraid to admit they were wrong.

You love saying you are only arguing against people calling him worse than he really is. How come you never stuck up for any other player or coach as vehemently as you do for Garrett? Especially since they received the same treatment?

Somebody like Greg Ellis? Or Terrance Newman? Or Mike Jenkins? They certainly didn't live up to their billing, and all three were lambasted on this board. Some of it deserved, but not like they were roasted. But if you're honest with yourself, they all did their jobs better than Garrett has done his. Where was your support for them? Or was it because they didn't receive the Schmitty stamp of approval from jump, so there wasn't the need to defend them to the death?
Whatevs. They have to like wear ties 'n stuff! ACCOUNTABILITIES!!!!!
 

Cotton

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Smitty: He does some things very well.

Smart person: Like what?

Smitty: Stuff. ~wipes drool~
 

Angrymesscan

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Smitty: He does some things very well.

Smart person: Like what?

Smitty: Stuff. ~wipes drool~
:lol

I was about to ask, what exactly does Garret do well?

Clock managment?
Gameplan?
Halftime adjustments?
x's & o's?
Accountability?
Manage his staff?
Feel for the momentum?
Coach up?

What does he do where you would give him a grade above C?
 

GShock

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Zimmer doesn't have the proven track record of blunders in terms of clock management that Garrett has however. I think that's really your issue. Unless a coach has proven hiimself as a stud head coach you don't think he is an improvement on Garrett. I'd say any coach who respects balance and can bring discipline would be an improvement over Garrett.
Zimmer doesn't have that track record, but he's never been a head coach, much less head coach and defensive coordinator at the same time. Another coach may respect balance and bring discipline, but absurdly overvalue players with whom he is familiar in lieu of younger, more talented players (as an example). Every single coach has weaknesses, and the coach that replaces Garrett will have them, too. It'll take us about 6 games to get sick of them, too, but they won't disappear with the next guy.

And while I don't speak for Schmitty, I am certainly willing to take a chance on a coach, even if he hasn't proven himself as a head coach (though that would obviously be preferable). Garrett has been the very definition of average, unlike the guy who he replaced. I'd be happy to replace him with Saban. I would have taken O'Brien. I could be convinced that Shaw or maybe Wisenhunt have potential. But replace average with a hotshot coordinator, or Caldwell, Zimmer, Jay Gruden, or Lovie Smith just to do this again in three years? Meh.
 

Smitty

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Zimmer doesn't have the proven track record of blunders in terms of clock management that Garrett has however. I think that's really your issue. Unless a coach has proven hiimself as a stud head coach you don't think he is an improvement on Garrett. I'd say any coach who respects balance and can bring discipline would be an improvement over Garrett.
And a lot of them don't/can't do that. Especially here, where they would get undermined.

I don't think you over inflate Garrett's value as a head coach, I think you just undervalue pretty much every other coaching possibility out there.
Part of it is that I don't really consider a guy like Marvin Lewis, who has made the playoffs while Garrett has not, to be "better."

What's better about it if he was here? Do I have any faith that he would be more than an 8-8 coach here when he's only rarely been more than an 8-8 coach outside of the Jerry mania, and has never won a playoff game himself?

To me that's all the same. It's not like Lewis hasn't had talent, he just hasn't been able to get them over the hump. Garrett hasn't been able to get us over the hump for his own reasons, but he's still a guy who isn't bad at his side of the ball and is just good enough not to let the team be awful.

In that sense, I really only see the truly elite coaches as the ones worth having here. So finding a real elite guy is the only worthwhile thing to do.
 
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