2016 POTUS Election Thread

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townsend

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Looks like a large portion went for Obama's s energy plans but I didn't digest the entire article. This is completely different from the allegations of Wal-Mart subsidies.
My mistake, I thought you were challenging the existence of corporate subsidies in general.

Here's something from Forbes that emphasizes the specific point we were making against walmart

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconnor/2014/04/15/report-walmart-workers-cost-taxpayers-6-2-billion-in-public-assistance/

Here's the study it's based on

http://www.americansfortaxfairness.org/files/Walmart-on-Tax-Day-Americans-for-Tax-Fairness-1.pdf
 

townsend

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This is an interesting place to sit in, because clearly it emphasizes the need for either a minimum wage, or public assistance. I believe that companies should foot the entire bill for the labor they're purchasing, and to me that seems like a less leftist solution than doling out benefits to underpaid individuals.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I believe that companies should foot the entire bill for the labor they're purchasing
If government would get their hands out of things then the labor force would be receiving exactly what their labor is actually worth. Not some imaginary value that we believe everyone's time should be worth.
 

Jiggyfly

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Sure and if you lower taxes businesses are more likely to expand because they have the ability to make more money. Expansion means more jobs. People who think rich people want to take their money and store it in a vault forever have never been rich.
No businesses are likely to pocket that money and grow their profits.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100911328
Corporations are hoarding cash: despite dividends and buybacks, cash is likely to hit another record high.

Cash set a record in the first quarter of 2013 on an absolute basis: $1.093 trillion in the S&P 500. It has set a record for 18 of the last 20 quarters.

With 47 percent of the S&P 500 reporting,we are once again on track for record cash levels.

What's going on? The short answer is that companies are not spending as much...they have record earnings, but they are holding on to a lot of the money. Consider the places where they would spend their money
:

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/4129000754001/us-companies-sitting-on-record-14t-in-cash/?#sp=show-clips
\

The mountain of cash corporate America is siting on keeps getting bigger.

"Standard and Poor's Ratings Services' rated universe of nearly 2,000 US nonfinancial companies held $1.82 trillion in cash and short- and long-term investments as of year-end 2014, an almost 5% increase from 2013," S&P's Andrew Chang said.
 

townsend

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If government would get their hands out of things then the labor force would be receiving exactly what their labor is actually worth. Not some imaginary value that we believe everyone's time should be worth.
Is that why when it was first introduced labor was less that 25 cents per hour? Would you describe the working conditions of the industrial revolution fair? Should we also get rid of child labor laws, worker safety regulations, and every other rule that was instituted out of necessity because free market principles had grotesquely failed? What is it about the abused labor force of the 19th century, and the not so coincidental problems in south Asia that we ought to revive?

Don't get me wrong. I think there is a bit of a tight rope to walk when it comes to workers rights vs. entitlement, entitlement (particularly from unions) is what sunk the entire auto industry. Still I think there's little to no evidence that an unregulated minimum wage has any success whatsoever in benefiting the middle class.
 

Cowboysrock55

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No businesses are likely to pocket that money and grow their profits.
You realize that they pocket the money because they don't think they can make additional profits through expansion? There isn't a single intelligent person in this world who wants their money sitting idle when they could be using that money to make more money. But when you have a shitty economy and high taxes, the risk exceeds the reward of using that money. What you posted actually supports my view perfectly.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Is that why when it was first introduced labor was less that 25 cents per hour? Would you describe the working conditions of the industrial revolution fair? Should we also get rid of child labor laws, worker safety regulations, and every other rule that was instituted out of necessity because free market principles had grotesquely failed?
No, which is probably why I said nothing of the such. And when you throw out labor being 25 cent an hour that is one of the most meaningless statistics. When what was first introduced? Who was earning 25 cents an hour? What else was going on with the economy at that time? If you go through the entire length of history you can find a real life example to support anything because there are so many other factors that go into an economy.
 

townsend

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No, which is probably why I said nothing of the such. And when you throw out labor being 25 cent an hour that is one of the most meaningless statistics. When what was first introduced? Who was earning 25 cents an hour? What else was going on with the economy at that time? If you go through the entire length of history you can find a real life example to support anything because there are so many other factors that go into an economy.
Sweet, so where's a real life example where no wage controls were in place and the lower/middle classes benefitted?
 

Cowboysrock55

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Sweet, so where's a real life example where no wage controls were in place and the lower/middle classes benefitted?
We have wage controls now and our economy sucks. So by your logic wage controls make for a bad economy.
 

townsend

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We have wage controls now and our economy sucks. So by your logic wage controls make for a bad economy.
Technically we have the strongest economy in human history. We're just suffering from an under represented middle class. The kind better represented in governments with higher minimum wages. Now that doesn't mean there aren't issues larger than our too low minimum wage, but that's the lousy foundation the rest of our economy is built on.
 

L.T. Fan

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Technically we have the strongest economy in human history. We're just suffering from an under represented middle class. The kind better represented in governments with higher minimum wages. Now that doesn't mean there aren't issues larger than our too low minimum wage, but that's the lousy foundation the rest of our economy is built on.
I can only say this. Everyone in this country has an opportunity to better themselves. That said some work harder at it than others. Some get better breaks than others. Some get luckier than others. That however, is the economic system we live under and as you said the economy is in good shape so to those who are waiting for something or someone to come along and pick them up and set them on their feet they will have a long wait because those who are getting better and those who have made it will be too busy trying to stay in that position. It's not enough to just observe what is perceived as inequities and unjust apportionment. You have to committ to find out how to bring the equity to yourself. If you think someone or some structure should determine how to make everyone prosperous then you will have a long and disappointing wait. It just doesn't happen that way. You make it or you fail trying to make it but you don't get what you want by expecting things to go your way because you deserve it. The you is directed at anyone not you in particular.
 

Jiggyfly

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You realize that they pocket the money because they don't think they can make additional profits through expansion? There isn't a single intelligent person in this world who wants their money sitting idle when they could be using that money to make more money. But when you have a shitty economy and high taxes, the risk exceeds the reward of using that money. What you posted actually supports my view perfectly.
You really are clueless when it comes to this stuff. :lol

Higher wages leads to more spending which leads to a better economy, corporations sitting on cash does nothing for anybody.
 

Clay_Allison

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I can only say this. Everyone in this country has an opportunity to better themselves. That said some work harder at it than others. Some get better breaks than others. Some get luckier than others. That however, is the economic system we live under and as you said the economy is in good shape so to those who are waiting for something or someone to come along and pick them up and set them on their feet they will have a long wait because those who are getting better and those who have made it will be too busy trying to stay in that position. It's not enough to just observe what is perceived as inequities and unjust apportionment. You have to committ to find out how to bring the equity to yourself. If you think someone or some structure should determine how to make everyone prosperous then you will have a long and disappointing wait. It just doesn't happen that way. You make it or you fail trying to make it but you don't get what you want by expecting things to go your way because you deserve it. The you is directed at anyone not you in particular.
I think you're thinking of the country you used to live in, back in the day. Now we live in an over regulated stagnant economy run by bureaucrats, lawyers and corrupt politicians. There are massive unregulated monopolies and trusts in food, information and medicine that are continuing to drive prices into the stratosphere and crush the middle class. As Jiggy pointed out, companies are hiding cash in mattresses or investing in more lobbyists instead of creating economic growth. Something clearly needs to be shaken up.

Also, you keep acting like I'm upset because I'm broke. I'm not Unk or anything but I'm doing fine on money. My job is in corrections and my wife sells liquor, it's hard to go broke doing two things that will never go away.
 

L.T. Fan

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I think you're thinking of the country you used to live in, back in the day. Now we live in an over regulated stagnant economy run by bureaucrats, lawyers and corrupt politicians. There are massive unregulated monopolies and trusts in food, information and medicine that are continuing to drive prices into the stratosphere and crush the middle class. As Jiggy pointed out, companies are hiding cash in mattresses or investing in more lobbyists instead of creating economic growth. Something clearly needs to be shaken up.

Also, you keep acting like I'm upset because I'm broke. I'm not Unk or anything but I'm doing fine on money. My job is in corrections and my wife sells liquor, it's hard to go broke doing two things that will never go away.
As I said at the end of the post it was generally directed not at anyone in particular. I disagree however that the economic structure of the country is broken. In a nutshell the stagnation you perceive is in reality a cautious approach by some business. It mostly affects certain areas like western states. The Sun belt and parts of the Midwest are enjoying a robust economy.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You really are clueless when it comes to this stuff. :lol

Higher wages leads to more spending which leads to a better economy, corporations sitting on cash does nothing for anybody.
You clearly have no knowledge of economics. Seriously, its pretty obvious you've never taken an econ class and have no knowledge of economics.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Technically we have the strongest economy in human history.
Why do you think that? Our Real GDP Growth rate isn't anywhere close to an all time best right now.

France for example has one of the higher minimum wages around the world. They also have what, like 10% unemployment rate?
 

Cowboysrock55

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By the way, another serious problem in the United States is the number of people on disability. They are serious drains on the economy. The number of people on disability has balooned over the years.
 

L.T. Fan

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By the way, another serious problem in the United States is the number of people on disability. They are serious drains on the economy. The number of people on disability has balooned over the years.
This is a direct way of seeing that there are people who will not nor wish to earn a living. They had rather have a reduced but effortless lifestyle otherwise why would there be a dramatic in crease in this category. It isn't because of increased circumstances that create disabilities with the exception of combat veterans.
 
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