The Great Police Work Thread

fortsbest

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
3,733
The most amazing thing is how it was adopted by middle and high class white suburban kids. However, taking a step back, you shouldn't be surprised. While gangster rap is long gone - (who's a gangster rapper nowadays and Ice Cube's a comedian, Dre sells headphones, Snoop is a goofy entertainer and Ice-T plays a TV show police officer) - media executives took that popularity for hip hops rawness, made it mainstream and became millionaires in the process proliferating everything we see with blood and gore. But they were just quenching America's thirst for violence.

Strong ties to black culture is hip hop's differentiator, but you can't say hip hop is unique to glorifying rebellion, defying authority and drug use. Hippies, heavy metal, grunge, etc. Hell, I'd say aside from Taylor swift pop, seemingly all American music is about rebellion, defying authority and drug use. It's as American as apple pie.

so I'll agree that hip hop may be a fuse, but we Americans were happy as shit to light that fuse. Hip hop didn't drop the atom bomb or cause the development of weapons of ungodly Rambo destruction.
YOu are right sir. What is really sad though is that that type of music with the messages in it became popular with any culture or race. and while it is judgmental, lack of parenting of both white and other races is a big part of it. I pay attention to what my daughter and kids around her listen to and watch.
 

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,753
when it comes to Columbine, Sandy Hook, VA Tech, Aurora and the mass shootings phenomena, what has this been all about? Can't blame Tupac Shakur here.
We are talking specifically about the police brutality issue and why the culture of fear exists. Not about mass shootings and gun control. There is a thread for that.
 

kidd

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
Messages
2,377
Just gonna leave this here for now.


If this isn't the appropriate place, hopefully the MODs will put it elsewhere and not delete it.
 
Last edited:

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,726
Just gonna leave this here for now.


If this isn't the appropriate place, hopefully the MODs will put it elsewhere and not delete it.
That dude is spot on.
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
I think absent fathers is a huge issue with violence. I feel like lack of male role models makes kids idealoze media created male role models, which are frequently fictional characters who solve all of their problems by shooting people.

It seems to me a lot of mass shooters had absent fathers. It was definitely the case of Dylan Roof and the Sandy Hook shooter. Obviously with inner city violence, cycles of poverty and imprisonment mean young men frequently grow up with a father who's in prison, or absent for other reasons.

I also think the death of religion is hitting young men hard too, because in absence of fathers, a lot of purpose and community could be found in the church. Less likely someone feels like they're in it alone that way. More chance of picking up some kind of surrogate father figure or having a less media violence driven sense of morality.
 

Chocolate Lab

Mere Commoner
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
19,854
I think absent fathers is a huge issue with violence. I feel like lack of male role models makes kids idealoze media created male role models, which are frequently fictional characters who solve all of their problems by shooting people.

It seems to me a lot of mass shooters had absent fathers. It was definitely the case of Dylan Roof and the Sandy Hook shooter. Obviously with inner city violence, cycles of poverty and imprisonment mean young men frequently grow up with a father who's in prison, or absent for other reasons.

I also think the death of religion is hitting young men hard too, because in absence of fathers, a lot of purpose and community could be found in the church. Less likely someone feels like they're in it alone that way. More chance of picking up some kind of surrogate father figure or having a less media violence driven sense of morality.
All absolutely true and basically proven factual by sociological studies.

Yet the media and "intellectual" narrative for many years has been that the nuclear family is an unnecessary relic and religion is a delusion for the ignorant.
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
All absolutely true and basically proven factual by sociological studies.

Yet the media and "intellectual" narrative for many years has been that the nuclear family is an unnecessary relic and religion is a delusion for the ignorant.
I think the nuclear family is still a flawed concept. Because there's not enough support for the parents. I think we push 20-30 year olds too hard to be providers and parents without any help. But kids need more adults in their life and not less. They need grandparents and aunts and uncles who can be part of a larger support structure. I think we fucked over the American child by forcing families to "move where the work is" far away from their family.
 

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,753
He posted another video about the dallas sniper shooting but it was taken down or it seems to be. The link I had on my FB page gives me an error now.
Feh. What does that Limey know about anything?
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
119,726
I think absent fathers is a huge issue with violence. I feel like lack of male role models makes kids idealoze media created male role models, which are frequently fictional characters who solve all of their problems by shooting people.

It seems to me a lot of mass shooters had absent fathers. It was definitely the case of Dylan Roof and the Sandy Hook shooter. Obviously with inner city violence, cycles of poverty and imprisonment mean young men frequently grow up with a father who's in prison, or absent for other reasons.
I would agree with this.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
Good and I will reply in kind.

As bluntly as I can put it, the BLM thing is not helping. It is part of the social justice movement right now that does little to help the situation.

From where I see it, it is a simplistic and dividing movement.

It is not intended to stop the killings as much as it is to pander to emotion and continue to spread the cultural division that is at the root of it all to begin with. It is basically taking a stance that it is preferable to bludgeon someone over the head with self-evident crap and does not inspire any dialogue at all.


Exactly right.


It does discredit it as far as I am saying. Using a hashtag aligns that person and their comments to an extreme polar side of the discussion.

From where I stand, it is not a lot different than being silly and ignorant and throwing up a hand, and a calling someone a "hater" mainly because you want to make the argument one sided and simple. There is nothing simple about any of this.

Continued ignorance is not going to make anything better.





And as far as I am concerned the BLM is a huge part of that. It polarizes. It ends discussion. It divides.

But then again, that is apparently what is desired. There is no desire for unity, just continued segregation. Even the deaths of the policemen have been shouted down by people who drop the hashtag. I don't know what the end game is for this. I don't even it is meant to stop the murder of innocent lives anymore, just the ones they feel are more justified.

Twitter was a sickening place to be today. People were being called out for mourning the death of the cops by people who wanted to point out the continued message that "black lives matter" and how dare that whitey Troy Aikman suggest the police were anything other than the white devil. Peter King tweeted comments about how someone like MLK is needed now, and got the same kind of idiotic treatment. Yep, that kind of moronic thinking is going to continue the inflammation.

The ignorance was appalling.



I took exception with that part of the article certainly. I don't argue with the fact that you have a bunch of racist morons occupying positions in our nation's police departments. I picked that particular section out as it really tries a little too hard. It suggested that this generation got the message from parents who suffered state-sponsored racism in the 1950s and 1960s. Nope. This generation was raised in a different era, with a separate subculture of their own that is nothing like that.


Examined? What's to examine? A racist police force in L.A. brought that out. It then spread to become part of the subculture, even to people that it doesn't even have relevance.



And to have a large part of a musical subgenre . A movie is a movie, but a song is going to be far more influential and hammer a message in much more as it is repetitive. So I grow up with a F the police message over and over again, I am going to develop a healthy bit of anger. That anger comes out and it causes white fear, which is huge with this as far as I am concerned.

I don't even think half the idiot cops who are murdering people would truly put on a white hood and burn a cross. But they are scared by what they perceive is a prevalent part of the culture.


Sorry if the hip hop label was too broad for you. You are right, it's not. But if you honestly think that gangsta rap hasn't played a part in this, I don't know what to say.

It is the most influential and commercially successful subgenre, which means it reaches more of the audience. It glorifies gangs, drugs and countless other crap that does not help anyone. It's garbage and it happens to have a big message which preaches denying authority, embracing crime and promotes mistrust. If anything, it has inspired fear from the police force, which only inflates the brutality.
I understand where you are coming from with all of this, as for BLM I agree with the sentiment and realize it's not some great organized movement and it is being judged as such.

I also think at this point it is just to polarizing and should probably be usurped by something else.

Just as you think Twitter was sickening so was Fox they were out and out race baiting yesterday especially that clown Hannity.

I don't do twitter and from what I do see it seems to be driven by a trolling culture so I have an issue with it being a representative of what BLM means to the majority of black people amd how it is being used as a cudgle to bash and discredit the real issues.

I have no problems sayings there are some real issues in my community and that rap music and disdain for authority are parts of the problems, I have gotten into plenty of arguments about not playing the blame game and taking responsibility most more heated that what happens here.

But I also know from first hand exsperience that I as a black man am not given the benefit of the doubt and have been penalized for being a "scary black man" exact words that were used in a conflict resulution.

That's why it pisses me off to hear and read stuff like what are they upset about everything is equal it's not, yes we as black people have more opportunities than ever before but for the most part we are starting with a disadvatage.

But that's life, deal with it and don't quit and pout is how I live.

I don't think all cops are racist and I don't think all white people are out to get anybody, I understand the fear cops have, even in these two cases this week I don't think racism was the issue, I think they legitimitley freaked out.

What I do have an issue with is the consequences of these actions which IMO is the reason these things keep happening.

I just think people need to look beneath the surface and stop using any exscuse to shut down and not try and understand what the real issue is.
 

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,753
I understand where you are coming from with all of this, as for BLM I agree with the sentiment and realize it's not some great organized movement and it is being judged as such.
Agree to disagree then. While it may not be an organized movement with true leadership and membership cards, it actually is something worse. It is actually unorganized and it sends the wrong message to people looking for an outlet to vent their pain, grief and frustration.

I also think at this point it is just to polarizing and should probably be usurped by something else.
Right. Which is why when people wish there was a person like MLK to step forward, it is not a slam. It is an acknowledgement that only a great leader who represents common sense instead of hysterical ranting that can fix this gap and there isn't anyone even trying.

Just as you think Twitter was sickening so was Fox they were out and out race baiting yesterday especially that clown Hannity.

I don't do twitter and from what I do see it seems to be driven by a trolling culture so I have an issue with it being a representative of what BLM means to the majority of black people amd how it is being used as a cudgle to bash and discredit the real issues.
Are you kidding? Social media is a major part of BLM, why it even exists. The social justice movement doesn't come about overnight and outlets like Twitter gives every yahoo and race baiter just as much of an audience as Fox News.

I understand fully what you are talking about with the "real issues". Sad thing is, BLM does not devote a lot of time to those issues. They work off of capitalizing victimization and seek to divide. I think there could be something much much better than this movement for the issues to be addressed.

I have no problems sayings there are some real issues in my community and that rap music and disdain for authority are parts of the problems, I have gotten into plenty of arguments about not playing the blame game and taking responsibility most more heated that what happens here.

But I also know from first hand exsperience that I as a black man am not given the benefit of the doubt and have been penalized for being a "scary black man" exact words that were used in a conflict resulution.

That's why it pisses me off to hear and read stuff like what are they upset about everything is equal it's not, yes we as black people have more opportunities than ever before but for the most part we are starting with a disadvatage.

But that's life, deal with it and don't quit and pout is how I live.

I don't think all cops are racist and I don't think all white people are out to get anybody, I understand the fear cops have, even in these two cases this week I don't think racism was the issue, I think they legitimitley freaked out.

What I do have an issue with is the consequences of these actions which IMO is the reason these things keep happening.

I just think people need to look beneath the surface and stop using any exscuse to shut down and not try and understand what the real issue is.
No argument here either.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
This guy nailed it:


The "Black Lives Matter" Slogan Ignores Self-Destructive Behavior


by Derryck Green


"Black Lives Matter" is a great slogan. As a black man, I agree that black lives matter just as much as the lives of any of our racial counterparts.

But chanting, marching and hashtag activism isn't going to work unless we also are willing to see the big-picture problems affecting black America.

Here's a hint: making black lives matter has little to do with institutional racism, white privilege and white cops.

One website organizing people pushing "black lives matter" calls it "a slogan under which black people can unite to end state sanctioned violence both in Ferguson, but also across the United States of America… to end the insidious and widespread assault on black life." It states "Black people make up a mere 13 percent of the U.S. population [but] make up more than a third of those killed in officer-involved shootings across the country."

Perhaps. But the virtuous goal of promoting the perceived value of black lives in the manner now demanded by radical community activists is tragically misguided.

Activism advocating that black lives matter could have much more moral authority, and could be taken much more seriously, if it focused on actions devaluing black lives. These have very little to do with white cops and everything to do with self-destructive black behavior.

There is a disparity regarding violent death in the black community. We are killing our own at an alarming rate. According to a U.S. Department of Justice analysis, most murders are intraracial and "93 percent of black victims were killed by blacks" between 1980 and 2008. Yet Attorney General Holder, President Obama and Reverend Sharpton haven't wanted a national conversation about this shocking figure.

In a black-white comparison, black homicide victimization rates were around six times higher than for whites. Furthermore:
• Blacks were 47.4 percent of all homicide victims and 52.5 percent of offenders.


• Blacks accounted for 62.1 percent of all drug-related homicide victims compared to 36.9 percent for whites. Over 65.6 percent — almost two-thirds — of all drug-related homicide offenders were black as compared to 33.2 percent being white.


• Blacks were 44.1 percent of felony murder victims and almost 59.9 percent of the offenders.

It's not like things improved under Obama's leadership. According to FBI statistics for 2012, 2,412 of 2,648 cases of black homicide had a black perpetrator.

This, to me, qualifies as an "insidious and widespread assault on black life." Yet those claiming black lives matter fixate on Michael Brown and Eric Garner while virtually ignoring the thousands of black-on-black murder victims who remain largely nameless and faceless except to their loved ones.

The internecine war doesn't begin there. It actually begins in the womb. As deadly as black-on-black crime can be, the most dangerous place for a black child is still in the womb.

While blacks make up only around 13 percent of the American population, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported black abortions accounted for nearly 35.7 percent of all abortions performed in 2010. In Mississippi, blacks accounted for 71.7 percent of all abortions, despite blacks comprising only around 37 percent of the population.

Similarly, a report from the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene found more black babies were killed by abortion (31,328) in New York City than were born (24,758) in 2012 — totaling 42.4 percent of all abortions performed there.

Black lives matter? Not only is it questionable if black lives really do matter to blacks themselves, but one could also sincerely question if deep self-hate is responsible for motivating blacks to kill themselves off with the recklessness that seems to permeate our actions.

Combining the black victims of abortion and black-on-black homicides, we are facing an assault on black lives that has nothing to do with racist, white cops.

If we don't take our own lives seriously, why should we expect or demand that anyone else do so?

I believe black lives matter. It's more than an Internet hashtag to me. But black lives should matter to black folk at least as much as they matter to others. Black lives have to matter just as much when blacks take them.

# # #

Derryck Green, a member of the national advisory council of the Project 21 black leadership network, received an M.A. in Theological Studies from Fuller Theological Seminary and is currently pursuing his doctorate in ministry at Azusa Pacific University. Comments may be sent to Project21@nationalcenter.org.

Published by the National Center for Public Policy Research. Reprints permitted provided source is credited. New Visions Commentaries reflect the views of their author, and not necessarily those of Project 21, other Project 21 members, or the National Center for Public Policy Research, its board or staff.
Not really.

First of all he ignores the fact that there are more organizations doing exactly what he says is needed to be done than marching under the banner of BLM.

Also you can believe in the notion of BLM while also recognizing and working on the real issues that affect the black community.

I am 100% on board with realizing and addressing the real issues we have as black people with each other but those issues stem from a history of oppresion and some bad social welfare policies as well as personal responsibilities.

I realize the number one problem affecting the black community is accepting personal responsibility but that does not mean there are a lot of other societal things that need to be addressed.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
Agree to disagree then. While it may not be an organized movement with true leadership and membership cards, it actually is something worse. It is actually unorganized and it sends the wrong message to people looking for an outlet to vent their pain, grief and frustration.



Right. Which is why when people wish there was a person like MLK to step forward, it is not a slam. It is an acknowledgement that only a great leader who represents common sense instead of hysterical ranting that can fix this gap and there isn't anyone even trying.



Are you kidding? Social media is a major part of BLM, why it even exists. The social justice movement doesn't come about overnight and outlets like Twitter gives every yahoo and race baiter just as much of an audience as Fox News.

I understand fully what you are talking about with the "real issues". Sad thing is, BLM does not devote a lot of time to those issues. They work off of capitalizing victimization and seek to divide. I think there could be something much much better than this movement for the issues to be addressed.



No argument here either.
When I think of BLM, I think like like this

 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
You will never hear that coming from the left because that just doesn't divide us like "white cops hate black folk and kill them every chance they get." I heard audio of preachers saying they were going to tell their kids to not listen to cops if they were confronted and "defend yourself" against the police. Yeah, that is smart parenting and will help keep their kids safe.
You are assigning that to whole faction of people the majority of the left does nothing like and the majority of preachers do nothing like that.

This extreme labeling is one of the biggest issues we have today.

Confirmation bias.
 

Jiggyfly

Banned
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
9,220
The most amazing thing is how it was adopted by middle and high class white suburban kids. However, taking a step back, you shouldn't be surprised. While gangster rap is long gone - (who's a gangster rapper nowadays and Ice Cube's a comedian, Dre sells headphones, Snoop is a goofy entertainer and Ice-T plays a TV show police officer) - media executives took that popularity for hip hops rawness, made it mainstream and became millionaires in the process proliferating everything we see with blood and gore. But they were just quenching America's thirst for violence.

Strong ties to black culture is hip hop's differentiator, but you can't say hip hop is unique to glorifying rebellion, defying authority and drug use. Hippies, heavy metal, grunge, etc. Hell, I'd say aside from Taylor swift pop, seemingly all American music is about rebellion, defying authority and drug use. It's as American as apple pie.

so I'll agree that hip hop may be a fuse, but we Americans were happy as shit to light that fuse. Hip hop didn't drop the atom bomb or cause the development of weapons of ungodly Rambo destruction.
Yep.

Well said.
 

townsend

Banned
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
5,377
There's an enormous misconception that blacks who die in gang related crimes has nothing to do with privilege. As if treating people like second class citizens isn't exactly what created this crime spree. We like to believe that since somehow since we've declared that racism is wrong, that undoes the damage created by all the hateful shit that happened back when it was both legal and expected to segregate black people to menial jobs and bad parts of town.

If you have a justice system that's more likely to send black people to prison, a civilization that to this day will fight black people who are trying to move to nicer neighborhoods, have garbage inner city schools with negligible graduation rates, create class of impoverished blacks in the 1950s by denying them the union jobs, and college opportunities that the formed the foundation of the white middle class. You create cycles of poverty that end in desperation, drugs, and gangs.

This doesn't erase the responsibility of the individuals who choose to commit violent crimes, but America needs to answer for the desperation and hopelessness that it's bred in inner cities by cutting hard working black families off from the education, resources, and due process that white families with similar backgrounds could usually count on.
 
Last edited:

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,753
When I think of BLM, I think like like this

That's nice, then how about saying "Black Lives Matter Too"?

How about dorks not jumping the shit of someone who says the same thing but don't happen to be black? How about not creating more artificial segregation?

It would be nice if that is what you got from most who adopt the hashtag.

But let's get honest, that is not the case. Not how it is taken by the average pissed off black person.

And don't blame the media. They need the media and unless I have missed something, I have yet to see when this above has been repeated by BLM leadership. Wait, they don't have any leaders.

To me, it is a failed movement that needs something better.
 

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
121,753
Love how Richard Sherman blasted King Noble:
 
Top Bottom