2015 College Football Chatter

Status
Not open for further replies.

boozeman

28 Years And Counting...
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
122,648
I'll remember that with the upcoming draft that you will be watching intently.
I get it sounds hypocritical, but the draft is banking on 20-24 year olds, not a 17-18 year old juveniles. There is a maturity factor that plays more into why the process works somewhat differently.

I admit that the bigger signing day has become, the more turned off I am by kids that age pretending to be celebrities and even worse, their parents acting like total crap heads.

I have also read quite a few things the last few days that shows the bust ratio of Top 100 college recruits is a lot higher than the pros, and that makes the initial excitement a little crazy.

Take a look at the "top classes" every year. Well, they are the same programs getting those guys nearly year after year. The schools in the recruiting hot beds of Florida and southern California will get the top honors mostly. The national champs for that year will usually do the same.

Occasionally you will get an outlier like Mississippi pop in there, but otherwise it is the hyped kids going to the big schools. At lot of times they never even finish at the same school.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
As a Tennessee fan, I know what it's like bringing in a bunch of 4/5 star kids like they routinely did in the '90's and what it's been like at the end of the Fulmer era and then the Dooley years when you have several classes in a row predominately made up of 3 stars with a handful of 2's and 4's sprinkled in.

I'll definitely take a class loaded with 4/5's any day, even if a few don't pan out.
 

1bigfan13

Your favorite player's favorite player
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
27,174
I kind of feel the same way that Booze does.

I don't get too excited about NSD. I'll check in on it to see how the Sooners and some of the Big 12 schools did but I'm certainly not fully enthralled by it like I am the NFL draft.

For me the biggest reason I feel this way is because it feels like only 30% of these kids will receive decent playing time this upcoming season. While the rest of them will be red-shirted or will have to sit behind upper classmen.

So I'm supposed to get super excited about some kid who likely won't see significant playing time until the 2016 season at best? Oklahoma signed some good players, so I'm told, but I can't get excited about any of them because I know its highly unlikely that any of them will be significant contributors to the upcoming season.

At least in the NFL your picks from rounds 1 and 2 are expected to contribute immediately. So the instant gratification is more prevalent at the pro level than the college level. That's probably why I prefer the NFL draft to NSD.
 
Last edited:

Clay_Allison

Old Bastard
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
5,488
Petrino is a dbag, but for many reasons other than just this. It may not be right but this does happen a lot and it goes both ways. And I can't say much because just 2 weeks ago Tennessee rescinded an offer to DL Marques Ford who had been committed for 6 months. This kid is a 4 star pass rusher and turned down opportunities to visit other schools all fall, but when LSU lost it's DC, 5 star DL Kyle Phillips switched from leaning towards LSU to committing to Tennessee and they ended up dropping Ford so they could use their last 2 openings at other positions.

A kid de-committing is bad enough because you'd think they would know what it means to commit even though it isn't binding. But I don't get how a school with grown coaches can make an offer, have it accepted and then later say 'oops, we have too many higher rated guys at your position now and well, sorry.' Even if it's a 2 or 3 star player, you offered and they accepted. But Tennessee just showed the door to a 4 star DE.
He signed with Rutgers, so that's not too bad.
 
D

Deuce

Guest
I love NSD, but my only problem with it is the increase in attention whorish behavior. It used to be where only the elite kids did a hat ceremony and once they picks, it was done. Now every 2* prospect wants one, usually after they flip a commit once or twice. Up til then, it's all "where my _____ fans at?!?" on Twitter looking for followers.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
I kind of feel the same way that Booze does.

I don't get too excited about NSD. I'll check in on it to see how the Sooners and some of the Big 12 schools did but I'm certainly not fully enthralled by it like I am the NFL draft.

For me the biggest reason I feel this way is because it feels like only 30% of these kids will receive decent playing time this upcoming season. While the rest of them will be red-shirted or will have to sit behind upper classmen.

So I'm supposed to get super excited about some kid who likely won't see significant playing time until the 2016 season at best? Oklahoma signed some good players, so I'm told, but I can't get excited about any of them because I know its highly unlikely that any of them will be significant contributors to the upcoming season.

At least in the NFL your picks from rounds 1 and 2 are expected to contribute immediately. So the instant gratification is more prevalent at the pro level than the college level. That's probably why I prefer the NFL draft to NSD.
Isn't the draft about the same? What percentage of draftees end up living up to their expectation?

Personally I enjoy NSD more than the draft. There I said it.

Or at least the recruiting process. I like that more than the draft.
 

Carl

RIP Brother
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
1,372
I hope so. It reminds me of the late 80's/early 90's when Tennessee started building and became a national power. Butch Jones has shown he can recruit, it'll now be interesting to see what he can do with them all.
It looks promising; we are back in CA and to a lesser extent VA, IN and Ohio. And we are certainly back in the game in GA big time. If the QB plays well next season , 9-10 wins is not out of the equation.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
It looks promising; we are back in CA and to a lesser extent VA, IN and Ohio. And we are certainly back in the game in GA big time. If the QB plays well next season , 9-10 wins is not out of the equation.
Not sure how Butch is doing it but he's hitting home runs the last two years recruiting. But he's going to have to start showing results soon or the recruits won't be so easily sold in the future.

I do like what Dobbs brings, especially the read option. Whats impressive is we signed 3 top 300 QB's this year too. With Hurd having a years experience and adding Kamara I think the run game will be dangerous. And while they are real young, the DL looks to have the makings of one of the best in the nation. We really need to have a breakout season this year.
 

VA Cowboy

Brand New Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
4,710
He signed with Rutgers, so that's not too bad.
Yeah he ended up having other options but after closing down his recruiting months ago probably could've had even more. What'll be interesting now is watching his career and comparing it to Kyle Phillips that Tennessee replaced him with.
 

dallen

Senior Tech
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
Messages
8,466
I don't know why people get all super excited about NSD and especially the 4-5 star kids. Most of these kids are crap after a few years. Quite a few end up in jail etc. and never realize their potential.

It is nice to have a strong recruiting class, but at the end of the day, it is about the same as an NFL draft getting all A's.
Yeah. You'd rather sign a 5 star than a 3 star recruit, but player development and identifying guys that fit your system plays a much bigger part in success than what rivals.com grades your class
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
Apperently the Texas DT recruits are really pissed about being lied to and decieved concerning their position coach. He splits for another job the day after leading them on and they are not happy. Tech has got a few transfers in their favor in the past under similar circumstances. I know that the NCAA has approved many waivers to be free to play somewhere else without penalty. I wonder if these kids end up somewhere else.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
If anyone is wondering what the deal is with TTU in the last couple of years lemme give you one example.

From the 2012 signing class that Tommy Tuberfail put together we have utter crap.

The top 15 ranked kids out of that clas go something like is:

12 of the 15 are no longer here. These are next year's RS Jr's and true SR's. Tommy Tuberville's last class.

10 - didn't qualify, got kicked off or didn't pan out.

2 - JUCO's graduated (Fortenberry and A. Stewart)

3 still here - Reginal Davis (4/5 receiver) , Q. White (2nd/3rd string RB) and Jared Caster (only guaranteed starter from class)

Of the rest of the class (rated 16-27) only 1 starter and 1 fringe starter in Eric Ward and Micah Awe in 2015.

Just crazy to look at. An abysmal situation for this staff to have inherited.

18.5% of the 2012 Class will contribute to the Program in it's 4th year of maturation. 7.4% of the class will be starters for our team next year.

****shout out to Juco The Riverside 3 who all fell in 16-27. Those guys were good Red Raiders and played hard while they were here.***
 

Rev

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
19,524
So what you are telling me.....


RAIDER!!!
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
Texas Tech invented the national letter of intent. Take that, haters!

Johnny Agan made $3.80 an hour at a Lake Tahoe job in the summer of 1962, good money he couldn’t have expected if he hadn’t switched from Texas Tech to Oklahoma at the last minute.

“I guess you could say that,” he told reporters.

Agan, a two-time all-state running back out of Class A state champ Albany, wasn’t the only incoming freshman who backed out of his agreement. Four Tech recruits flipped that summer, three opting for Oklahoma. You could call it a trend.

The summer before, Oklahoma poached three of Texas’ top recruits, notably Garland’s Butch Metcalf, who would become an all-conference offensive tackle for the Sooners in 1964.

Agan was the last straw. Under the July 26, 1962, banner “Sooner recruiting drawing fire,” The News reported that he was one of five Texas players paid “unreasonable” wages for jobs set up by a guy who kept the books of a booster fund that landed Oklahoma on probation in 1960.

Overpaying athletes, of course, could put you at odds with the NCAA. But Tech signees switching to OU weeks before school starts?

No rule against that in ’62.

“It’s an illustration of the thing we have been working so hard to remedy,” said J. William Davis, chairman of Tech’s athletic council, “and naturally this case brings it home very strongly to us here at Tech.”

First you should know the Southwest Conference already had a rule against tampering with players once they’d signed. But it applied only to SWC schools. Which was why Davis championed a national letter of intent, making all signees off limits.

The idea had already been voted down twice at the NCAA convention, but the SWC had Davis’ back. Tech’s coach, JT King, said the Big Eight should support a national letter “to end Oklahoma’s domination in that conference.” Hayden Fry reported that Sooners coaches were pursuing two SMU signees, ignoring a no-tampering agreement between his predecessor, Bill Meeks, and Bud Wilkinson. If the meddling didn’t stop, Texas’ Darrell Royal said, SWC schools might have to start raiding Oklahoma’s roster.

Then a funny thing happened: Not long after the reports, Johnny Agan announced he was going to Tech after all.

Agan, who would play three years in the same backfield with Donny Anderson, said his future was in Texas and he should prepare for it. He denied that Oklahoma coaches, fearing an NCAA probe, turned him back. Wilkinson said OU learned late that Agan simply didn’t qualify academically, which was news back in Albany.

Whatever the reason, Davis and OU officials came to an understanding in November. And in 1964, the Collegiate Commissioners Association, chaired by Davis, created the national letter of intent.

A good thing, too, or else we’d have to keep these kids locked up all summer.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
Texas and Notre Dame could go 0-12 this year and still be ranked in the preseason top 25 next year.
 

Texas Ace

Teh Acester
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
23,475
Texas and Notre Dame could go 0-12 this year and still be ranked in the preseason top 25 next year.
Not true.

We weren't on anyone's top 25 last season going into the year and I doubt we'll be going into 2015 either.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
Not true.

We weren't on anyone's top 25 last season going into the year and I doubt we'll be going into 2015 either.
That's the point of the post. Texas is on preason top 25 lists.

I've seen texas be overrated many many times. Norte Dame even moreso.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
Here is one kid who is playing it smart in the recruiting process. Hopefully this happens more.



After almost getting burned on signing day, Roquan Smith has decided against signing a national letter of intent (NLI, or commonly called LOI) when he finalizes his college decision, according to his high school coach.

Smith is the 4-star linebacker from Macon County who committed to UCLA over UGA in front of ESPN cameras last Wednesday. Smith didn’t turn in his LOI after reports surfaced later that day that UCLA’s defensive coordinator had accepted a job with the Atlanta Falcons.

The original plan was for Smith to take around a week to choose again among his four finalists, which also included Michigan and Texas A&M.

Macon County coach Larry Harold told the AJC on Monday that Smith now has “no timetable” on selecting a school, but that he “doesn’t expect it to drag out too much longer” with his star player.

Perhaps most significant, Smith’s coach also revealed that the linebacker won’t be signing a letter of intent after finalizing his college plans. Smith will commit, and then officially be a recruit when he attends his first day of summer classes.

“He’s not going to sign a letter of intent,” Harold said. “The reason why is because what he went through last week. This just gives us flexibility in case something else unexpectedly happens again.”

How do the colleges feel about that? Harold said he gave the news to all four finalists. “Of course, they all said that’s fine. But they were like ‘What does this mean?’ They said this has never been done before, to the best of their knowledge. It could set a precedent. They had to do some research, but they said it indeed could be done and that they’re fine with it.

“I guess you’ll really be able to tell if a coach or college really wants a kid if they’ll agree to do this – letting a kid come to their campus this summer without signing an LOI.”

“Again, we’re doing it this way after what happened last week. I don’t know where this is all going to go. I guess God put Roquan in this position for a reason. Maybe it was meant to help educate other kids about these types of situations.”

Smith is one of several ugly recruiting stories that have dominated the headlines since last Wednesday’s signing day – all involving college coaches who lured kids into signing with their school, only to leave for other jobs shortly after the ink was dry on the letter of intent.

Smith was lucky because he didn’t submit his LOI, but others weren’t as fortunate.

Ohio State’s Urban Meyer was called out by a Detroit high school coach for recruiting “under false pretenses” after the Buckeyes running backs coach left for the NFL the day after signing day. Meanwhile, a Texas recruit tweeted “Guess I was lied to in my face” after a Longhorns assistant was hired away by Florida on Friday.

It has been a hot topic in national blogs, with Sports Illustrated’s Andy Staples writing on Monday that the LOI was “the worst contract in American sports.”

“Why is the (LOI) the worst contract in American sports? It requires players to sign away their right to be recruited by other schools. If they don’t enroll at the school with which they signed, they forfeit a year of eligibility. Not a redshirt year, but one of their four years to play. In return, the (LOI) guarantees the player nothing.

“Sure, the (LOI) claims to guarantee a scholarship, but that simply isn’t true. That is contingent on the player being admitted to the school and on the football program staying below the 85-scholarship limit. A school can dump the player at any point between Signing Day and preseason camp, and he would have no recourse. This guarantee is no different than the one on a conference-approved financial aid form, but it costs the player something the financial aid agreement does not.”

If Smith sticks to his plan of not signing a letter of intent, it would make a bold (and possibly historic statement) in football recruiting circles – but it wouldn’t be a precedent in college athletics. It happens in basketball recruiting among elite prospects, and nobody ever handled it better than former Kentucky basketball star Brendan Knight, as documented in THIS STORY.

Knight was always weary that Kentucky coach John Calipari would take the next NBA job, so he only signed scholarship papers (binding Kentucky to Knight, and not vice versa) and skipped the LOI. He remained committed to Kentucky, and was officially a recruit on his first day of summer classes.

How did Knight know how to play it so well? “My husband and I are very informed,” his mother told the Lexington Herald. “I don’t understand how any parent would not be aware. As a parent, that’s your job.”

Georgia Tech fans will remember in 1995 when the nation’s best point guard (Stephon Marbury of New York) signed a letter of intent with the Yellow Jackets but forgot to turn it in. He became an official Tech recruit on his first day of classes.

There’s also countless examples of other basketball standouts from Georgia getting to the same exact situation, but in a backwards sort of way — after getting a LOI release before enrolling. For example, Rockdale County’s Kevin Ware signed an LOI with Tennessee in 2011’s early period, but asked for his release after Bruce Pearl was fired. Ware later committed to Louisville but couldn’t sign another LOI because NCAA rules only permit a student-athlete to sign one LOI each calendar year. Even though Ware committed, he was technically a free agent until his first day of classes at Louisville that summer.

Three of the state’s top 10 basketball prospects from last year were all involved in the same type of situation as Ware’s – Ahmed Hill of Aquinas (signed with Marquette early, released, committed and enrolled at to Virginia Tech), Whitewater’s Phil Cofer (Tennessee to FSU), and Morgan County’s CJ Turman (Tennessee to Florida Atlantic).

Back to Roquan Smith: He’s going to sign the scholarship papers with his chosen school, just not the LOI (the LOI period ends on April 1).

Does he think this will start a trend among elite football prospects?

“I don’t know, I really don’t know,” Harold said. “I do hope after what happened with the kids from Ohio State and Texas, that the 2016 class of recruits and beyond will take precautions.

“I hope that they will learn from these situations, and they will ask questions to the coaches like ‘Be straight forward and honest with me, are you leaving? Do you plan on leaving anytime soon?’

“You want the best for these kids. They are like your sons. When they hurt, you hurt.”

Note: Just for clarity purposes, there are two main papers that each football recruit signs on signing day: (1) a letter of intent or LOI/NLI (which binds the athlete to the school) and (2) a grant-in-aid or scholarship papers (which bind the college to the athlete). Under Roquan’s plan, which he could change, he would commit to a school, sign the grant-in-aid papers and not the LOI, and then officially be counted as his college’s recruit on his first day of summer classes.
 

skidadl

El Presidente'
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
11,888
[MENTION=12]Deuce[/MENTION] our AD is on the playoff and NCAA committees. Check out what he has to say:


Here's what Hocutt said:

Hocutt also indicated that an early signing period for football could absolutely happen as early as this year. Would be 3rd Wed in December.

On the potential early signing period, Hocutt said it'll be presented at meetings this spring. If passed, it would be in place for 2 years.

If passed, prospects would have a 72-hour window starting on the 3rd Wednesday in December to ink an NLI.


Very interesting.
 
D

Deuce

Guest
@Deuce our AD is on the playoff and NCAA committees. Check out what he has to say:


Here's what Hocutt said:

Hocutt also indicated that an early signing period for football could absolutely happen as early as this year. Would be 3rd Wed in December.

On the potential early signing period, Hocutt said it'll be presented at meetings this spring. If passed, it would be in place for 2 years.

If passed, prospects would have a 72-hour window starting on the 3rd Wednesday in December to ink an NLI.


Very interesting.
George O'Leary talked about it at his post-NSD presser and said he was told it's expected to pass easily and to expect it this year. I think it's great all around. Lots of pressure will be on the middle tier kids to sign or possibly lose their spots down the road, which sucks, but at least it protects them if they made their mind up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom