2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Clay_Allison

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This is a fair point, nuclear tactics in legislation probably was partly responsible for the tea party surge in the first place. The legislation absolutely not being worth all the resentment it created.


I'm never felt he deserved the peace prize (the recipients rarely do.) but the fact that he was handed a country in the middle of an all out nose dive, are measurably, definitely better off than we were in 08 seems like something he should receive credit for.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, never wanted him, never voted for him, but any objective assessment. Measured against other real presidents, and not Bill Pullman from Independence Day, ranks him out as a good president.
Just ranks out recent presidents as being part of a broken system that keeps getting worse, that don't have as healthy or unburdened an economy to make them look good any more.
 

townsend

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Just ranks out recent presidents as being part of a broken system that keeps getting worse, that don't have as healthy or unburdened an economy to make them look good any more.
Is there a non-recent president that you think could be aptly described as good?
 

Clay_Allison

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Is there a non-recent president that you think could be aptly described as good?
Hard to say. Get before Carter and it gets too much like Apples and Oranges. I still consider Reagan and Clinton as more effective than Obama, Carter, Bush and Bush. Regardless of concerns about some of their policies, ESPECIALLY the war on drugs for both of them, we didn't fall into military quagmires (or stay in them for too long after running against them), they passed a lot of their agenda with hostile congresses and they had strong economies to carry them that they at least didn't get in the way of.
 

L.T. Fan

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Clinton did more toward fiscal responsibility than most presidents, of recent years. He got a bum rap on the impeachment process because the topic that he was initially investigated for was a red herring. The Kenneth Starr group kept chasing rabbits until they uncovered his shenanigans with Lewenski. It was eventually used to get him compromised on his testimony that brought about the impeachment process. It was a sham.
 

townsend

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Clinton did more toward fiscal responsibility than most presidents, of recent years. He got a bum rap on the impeachment process because the topic that he was initially investigated for was a red herring. The Kenneth Starr group kept chasing rabbits until they uncovered his shenanigans with Lewenski. It was eventually used to get him compromised on his testimony that brought about the impeachment process. It was a sham.
Republicans are much more likely to start a boondoggle it seems. That being said, seducing a 19 year old intern as a 50-something year old, most powerful man in the world is not cool, and combined with the other accusations we've seen paints a picture of a predator.

Although some film flam was involved in trumping up charges, I'd say Clinton earned his disgrace for that kind of abuse of power. Shame we don't hold our Presidents to the same standard as our sitcom dads and Jello spokesmen.
 

boozeman

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Pretry convinced Trump has no intention of being President, but just trolling those that are serious about it.
 

Clay_Allison

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Republicans are much more likely to start a boondoggle it seems. That being said, seducing a 19 year old intern as a 50-something year old, most powerful man in the world is not cool, and combined with the other accusations we've seen paints a picture of a predator.

Although some film flam was involved in trumping up charges, I'd say Clinton earned his disgrace for that kind of abuse of power. Shame we don't hold our Presidents to the same standard as our sitcom dads and Jello spokesmen.
I don't think Clinton was accused of being Darren Sharper.
 

L.T. Fan

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Republicans are much more likely to start a boondoggle it seems. That being said, seducing a 19 year old intern as a 50-something year old, most powerful man in the world is not cool, and combined with the other accusations we've seen paints a picture of a predator.

Although some film flam was involved in trumping up charges, I'd say Clinton earned his disgrace for that kind of abuse of power. Shame we don't hold our Presidents to the same standard as our sitcom dads and Jello spokesmen.
Not that it matters but the 19 Year old was trying to seduce Clinton.
 

townsend

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Not that it matters but the 19 Year old was trying to seduce Clinton.
For the sake of veracity, I should mention that Clinton was actually 49. (I didn't realize how young he was when he was elected), and Monica was 22.
 

L.T. Fan

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For the sake of veracity, I should mention that Clinton was actually 49. (I didn't realize how young he was when he was elected), and Monica was 22.
Even so she essentially admitted she was completely star struck and pursued the rendezvous. Clinton was not intelligent in the manner of how he reacted. Instead of pitching her from the ability to access him he tried to have it both ways. The entire situation from start to finish was a hatchet job by the republicans. I am very familiar how all this started and evolved. A great deal of it from first hand exposure.
 

townsend

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Even so she essentially admitted she was completely star struck and pursued the rendezvous. Clinton was not intelligent in the manner of how he reacted. Instead of pitching her from the ability to access him he tried to have it both ways. The entire situation from start to finish was a hatchet job by the republicans. I am very familiar how all this started and evolved. A great deal of it from first hand exposure.
That's interesting. Even still, Clinton bears the responsibility for the affair. Much like if a commanding officer in the military had an affair with their subordinate. Or a teacher shacking up with a student. The power dynamic is too unbalanced.

But as you said, the republicans were mostly looking for anything to stick to him. I think the Republicans were gaming to take the 2000 election, and did so handily.
 

Jiggyfly

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That's interesting. Even still, Clinton bears the responsibility for the affair. Much like if a commanding officer in the military had an affair with their subordinate. Or a teacher shacking up with a student. The power dynamic is too unbalanced.

But as you said, the republicans were mostly looking for anything to stick to him. I think the Republicans were gaming to take the 2000 election, and did so handily.
The 2000 election was not handily won if really won at all, hanging chad?

But it makes you wonder how much of the Clinton scandal affected it.
 

VA Cowboy

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Republicans elected W.

Whatever organ they used for that is not only inferior, but should probably be removed before it metastasizes.
Gore and Kerry were the alternative. I'd vote W again over either of those two.
 

VA Cowboy

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What does that have to do with your question about the embargo?

And the Republicans have no stake in the gridlock?

When you have the Republican party saying it's their mission to make Obama a 1 term president before he is 30 days in and then going against policies they have been pushing for years because Obama advocates them. I think you need to question there philosophy just as much or more.
Dems did virtually the same with Bush
It would be been worse except 9/11 temporarily unified the nation.
 

Jiggyfly

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Dems did virtually the same with Bush
It would be been worse except 9/11 temporarily unified the nation.
This is totally false and the number of bipartisan legislation backs it up.

Each of the following major laws was enacted on a bipartisan vote:

The 2001 tax cuts;
the No Child Left Behind Act in 2001-2;
the 2002 extension of Trade Promotion Authority;
the 2003 medicare law;
the 2005 energy law focused on electricity;
the 2006 pension reform law;
the 2007 energy law focused on fuel;
the 2008 stimulus law;
the 2008 housing reform law; and
the 2008 TARP law.
For a more in-depth breakdown.

http://keithhennessey.com/2010/02/23/bipartisan-successes/
 

VA Cowboy

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The GOP has given Obama virtually everything he wants. It's the main reason Trump and Cruz are leading in the primaries, because most GOP voters didn't give the Senate and House to the GOP in order for them to rubber-stamp Obama's agenda, which is exactly what they've been doing. Most recently the omnibus deal last week funding all of Obama's agenda. They have been way more compromising than the Pelosi / Reid House and Senate in '06-08 under Bush.
 

townsend

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The 2000 election was not handily won if really won at all, hanging chad?

But it makes you wonder how much of the Clinton scandal affected it.
Don't forget that republicans also took the house and senate. It was the first time president and congress were republican since Eisenhower.
 

townsend

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Gore and Kerry were the alternative. I'd vote W again over either of those two.
Since Gore didn't come into office with an edict of finding a way into Iraq I'd have gone with him in retrospect, also his cabinet wouldn't have been a bunch of Sycophants from Bush Sr's administration.

That isn't to say Gore would be good. But not going to war with Iraq would have saved several trillion dollars and 10 thousand military lives. Not to mention ISIS would have never existed.
 
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