The Gun Control Debate Thread

Jiggyfly

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Because the need for a militia and the need for the citizens to be able to bare arms both had to do with the ability of the people to defend their country and property.

No one is ignoring the beginning of the sentence. We just don't really have a need for militia anymore. Just like the third Amendment is pretty useless these days. But something describing a militia doesn't describe something else just because it's in the same sentence, that would just be silly. If this was a statute and you brought your argument in front of a judge you'd be laughed out of the courtroom.
Wait what?

I never said the militia is describing something else, you are making up an argument I am not promoting.

But the supreme ourt has already ruled guns are subject to regulation what part of the amendment was used for that ruling?
 

NoDak

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I mean you could but the stigma about assault rifles is so bad right now that if you're seen carrying one the cops get called and they try to arrest you. That's why you get the ridiculous videos of people carrying them around trying to make a point with officers..
If somebody is carrying around an assault rifle, the police should be called. Because actual assault rifles are fully automatic and are ALREADY ILLEGAL. Just because idiots call a semi auto rifle an assault rifle doesn't make it true. The adjustable stock, pistol/fore grips and color of an AR15 doesn't make them any more dangerous than a standard traditional semi automatic rifle.


#blackgunsmatter
 

Cowboysrock55

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But the supreme ourt has already ruled guns are subject to regulation what part of the amendment was used for that ruling?
No part of the amendment was used for that. The courts just skirt the issue by saying as long as we don't ban you from being able to own a gun, then we aren't infringing on your right to own and bear it. Honestly to some extent, the constitution sort of gets trampled by the court system. They basically ignore it in the interest of what they feel is best for society to an extent.
 

Cowboysrock55

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If somebody is carrying around an assault rifle, the police should be called. Because actual assault rifles are fully automatic and are ALREADY ILLEGAL. Just because idiots call a semi auto rifle an assault rifle doesn't make it true.
Interesting, because I've heard the term used many times about semi automatic AR15's. But I agree with you to the extent that there is no difference between an AR15 and many other semi automatic weapons that people have no problem with. The attack on "assault rifles" has more to do with people needing to feel like something has changed after a tragedy then actual real meaningful change.

Did anyone know the Orlando shooter had a second gun on him? I believe he was also carrying a Glock. No one really talks about that though.
 

jsmith6919

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Interesting, because I've heard the term used many times about semi automatic AR15's. But I agree with you to the extent that there is no difference between an AR15 and many other semi automatic weapons that people have no problem with. The attack on "assault rifles" has more to do with people needing to feel like something has changed after a tragedy then actual real meaningful change.

Did anyone know the Orlando shooter had a second gun on him? I believe he was also carrying a Glock. No one really talks about that though.
Also the rifle he had wasn't an AR15, he had a Sig Sauer
 

Cotton

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If somebody is carrying around an assault rifle, the police should be called. Because actual assault rifles are fully automatic and are ALREADY ILLEGAL. Just because idiots call a semi auto rifle an assault rifle doesn't make it true. The adjustable stock, pistol/fore grips and color of an AR15 doesn't make them any more dangerous than a standard traditional semi automatic rifle.
This is correct and one part of this debate that annoys me to no end. The actual velocity of a .308 that looks like a hunting gun with wood stock is the same velocity as a .308 that has been decked out with tactical features. But the second one is black and is all scary and stuff. #blackgunsmatter
 

jsmith6919

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NoDak

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Actually the gun that fires the .308 is an AR10, but the most popular caliber in that kind of gun is the .223 or NATO equivalent of 5.56, which is the AR15.

Another tactic of the media and left is to add the scary "high powered" to the already scary sounding "assault" rifle. :panic

Except there is nothing "high powered" about it at all. In fact, in most states it's illegal to hunt deer with any caliber lower than .30 caliber. Because it does not have enough stopping power to humanely drop a deer. The .223/5.56 AR15 is mainly used as a target round and for varmint hunting. Think coyotes and gophers. High powered, indeed. But it is the right that loves to employ scare tactics, amirite?

And while we're clearing up stupid but widely accepted false claims about the AR15 and AR10... AR does NOT stand for assault rifle. It stands for Armalite, the first company to manufacture that kind of weapon.
 

Cotton

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Semi, there's noway he could buy a full auto legally that fast
Exactly. So, I'm not sure what the argument could be. Buying a class 3 weapon is ridiculously hard to do.
 

Genghis Khan

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I am not ignoring the end part, I realize it's importance.

My question is how does the 1st part fit in and why is it never discussed when 2nd amendment issues are being discussed.

I truly had not ever seen the amendment in it's entirety until yesterday.

How can you make one part of a sentence black letter law and ignore the rest of it?

Because there's nothing of substance in the first part. There's nothing there to make actual black letter law out of. Like I said there's no directive there.

It's like saying, because of X, then Y. Y is the only part that has substance. X is explanatory.
 

Cotton

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Actually the gun that fires the .308 is an AR10, but the most popular caliber in that kind of gun is the .223 or NATO equivalent of 5.56, which is the AR15.

Another tactic of the media and left is to add the scary "high powered" to the already scary sounding "assault" rifle. :panic

Except there is nothing "high powered" about it at all. In fact, in most states it's illegal to hunt deer with any caliber lower than .30 caliber. Because it does not have enough stopping power to humanely drop a deer. The .223/5.56 AR15 is mainly used as a target round and for varmint hunting. Think coyotes and gophers. High powered, indeed. But it is the right that loves to employ scare tactics, amirite?

And while we're clearing up stupid but widely accepted false claims about the AR15 and AR10... AR does NOT stand for assault rifle. It stands for Armalite, the first company to manufacture that kind of weapon.
Yeah, I realize the AR-15 is a .223. I was actually just giving some benefit of the doubt to some by using a higher caliber rifle as an example. Because a .223 is just a step above a .22.
 

NoDak

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Orlando shooter had 30-round magazine. Anyone in favor of changes to the laws regarding capacity? I've heard arguments that <10 rounds would be more effective than type of gun, ie semi/fully auto/handgun/rifle
Magazine size for a rifle is just another hollow argument. It takes about a second to drop a mag and slam another one home. I sincerely doubt if this guy that shot up that club in Orlando had ten 10 round mags instead of three 30 round mags, it would have made any difference at all. Maybe the last person shot would have died about 4-5 seconds later than they did.

The anti gun crowd never cries about banning hand guns when things like this come up. But one of the most widely used hand guns is the Glock 17 9mm. (this was the other gun used in Orlando) It has a 17+1 capacity. Meaning, it can carry 1 in the chamber and 17 in the magazine. It also only takes about a second to change mags. Why are we not hearing that this killer should be banned? Isn't it scary looking enough?
 

townsend

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Personally I don't necessarily give a damn if the assault weapons ban is reinstated. I don't think assault weapon ownership has improved a single person's life I think there might be some families that benefit from not having their husbands blow money on weapons they'll never use.

But it won't help. Paris had gun regulations, England just had a high profile assassination, something that hasn't happened in the US in a very long time, but if it had, the usual suspects would be saying gun control would have prevented it.
 

NoDak

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Personally I don't necessarily give a damn if the assault weapons ban is reinstated. I don't think assault weapon ownership has improved a single person's life I think there might be some families that benefit from not having their husbands blow money on weapons they'll never use.
Hey [MENTION=21]Iamtdg[/MENTION] This is exactly what I was talking about in my first post.

:lol
 

Cowboysrock55

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Personally I don't necessarily give a damn if the assault weapons ban is reinstated. I don't think assault weapon ownership has improved a single person's life I think there might be some families that benefit from not having their husbands blow money on weapons they'll never use.

But it won't help. Paris had gun regulations, England just had a high profile assassination, something that hasn't happened in the US in a very long time, but if it had, the usual suspects would be saying gun control would have prevented it.
Things eroding freedom and the constitution always bother me. More regulation isn't going to do anything to help this country and frankly I'm sick of that always being people's "solution." And shit I only own a 12 guage so I have no real skin in this game.
 

L.T. Fan

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Gun laws won't help with guys like Timothy McViegh. It's not about the devices it's about the crackpots.
 

townsend

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Actually the gun that fires the .308 is an AR10, but the most popular caliber in that kind of gun is the .223 or NATO equivalent of 5.56, which is the AR15.

Another tactic of the media and left is to add the scary "high powered" to the already scary sounding "assault" rifle. :panic

Except there is nothing "high powered" about it at all. In fact, in most states it's illegal to hunt deer with any caliber lower than .30 caliber. Because it does not have enough stopping power to humanely drop a deer. The .223/5.56 AR15 is mainly used as a target round and for varmint hunting. Think coyotes and gophers. High powered, indeed. But it is the right that loves to employ scare tactics, amirite?

And while we're clearing up stupid but widely accepted false claims about the AR15 and AR10... AR does NOT stand for assault rifle. It stands for Armalite, the first company to manufacture that kind of weapon.
This was pretty informative. I appreciate that.
 

Jiggyfly

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Interesting, because I've heard the term used many times about semi automatic AR15's. But I agree with you to the extent that there is no difference between an AR15 and many other semi automatic weapons that people have no problem with. The attack on "assault rifles" has more to do with people needing to feel like something has changed after a tragedy then actual real meaningful change.

Did anyone know the Orlando shooter had a second gun on him? I believe he was also carrying a Glock. No one really talks about that though.
That was reported in every broadcast I heard.
 
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