A week of LGBTQ acceptance education in a middle school. Really?

fortsbest · Apr 19, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
And does any of this affect you personally or will in the near future?

You have been wailing against this forever but where you live you will most likely never have to deal with any of this.

Why does this raise your ire so much?

Whether or not it currently affects me isn't the point. The point is that it is foolishness being perpetrated on people who feel the same as I do all over the country. In most areas where the majority of people feel as I do. Yet it is media, politicians and people like you who think it doesn't affect me so why should I care, that are pushing it or thinking it just isn't that big a deal. I would have never thought it would affect me here, but in the past few years our people have been lobbying to push our insurance provider to have to cover the cost of gender assignment surgery and the city seemed receptive. If it happens, then yes it affects me and everyone that works for the city so your comment is incorrect sir. Fort Worth is more liberal in some respects than you think my friend.

Jiggyfly · Apr 19, 2016

fortsbest said:
Whether or not it currently affects me isn't the point. The point is that it is foolishness being perpetrated on people who feel the same as I do all over the country. In most areas where the majority of people feel as I do. Yet it is media, politicians and people like you who think it doesn't affect me so why should I care, that are pushing it or thinking it just isn't that big a deal. I would have never thought it would affect me here, but in the past few years our people have been lobbying to push our insurance provider to have to cover the cost of gender assignment surgery and the city seemed receptive. If it happens, then yes it affects me and everyone that works for the city so your comment is incorrect sir. Fort Worth is more liberal in some respects than you think my friend.

Yeah that really would effect you that 1 person a year getting reassignment surgery.

Do you even hear yourself. :lol

fortsbest · Apr 19, 2016

Whatever dude. It's like healthcare and abortion. I don't want my tax dollars paying for anyone's abortion even remotely. I don't want my healthcare (insurance) paying for gender reassignment surgery either. But that isn't the point of this whole thread. The point was at some point people with power over others (specifically schools) were going to start pushing the LGBT and now Q for crying out loud, lifestyle in schools. A week of acceptance education is exactly the sort of thing I said would start to happen. Even you, whatever your personal beliefs, should be able to see that I was correct. But of course you won't and you'll find some way to say I exaggerated or overstated and this is no big deal. There's more coming so just hold your horses and wait for it.
And yes I hear myself you condescending, self-important dolt. Everyone here is wrong and foolish but you because most here do not see things from your enlightened, uber-knowledgable throne. Well I have news sonny, there aren't any racist or bigoted people here that I know of, just some that are tired of being told we are for being common sensical about things.

Jiggyfly · Apr 20, 2016

fortsbest said:
Whatever dude. It's like healthcare and abortion. I don't want my tax dollars paying for anyone's abortion even remotely. I don't want my healthcare (insurance) paying for gender reassignment surgery either. But that isn't the point of this whole thread. The point was at some point people with power over others (specifically schools) were going to start pushing the LGBT and now Q for crying out loud, lifestyle in schools. A week of acceptance education is exactly the sort of thing I said would start to happen. Even you, whatever your personal beliefs, should be able to see that I was correct. But of course you won't and you'll find some way to say I exaggerated or overstated and this is no big deal. There's more coming so just hold your horses and wait for it.
And yes I hear myself you condescending, self-important dolt. Everyone here is wrong and foolish but you because most here do not see things from your enlightened, uber-knowledgable throne. Well I have news sonny, there aren't any racist or bigoted people here that I know of, just some that are tired of being told we are for being common sensical about things.

Everyone here does not agree with you it's actually pretty even.

The sense about this is not common, hence the split being about 50/50.

L.T. Fan · Apr 20, 2016

Jiggyfly said:
Everyone here does not agree with you it's actually pretty even.

The sense about this is not common, hence the split being about 50/50.

What aspect is 50/50? The operation, the shared restrooms the idea of the practice, which or what. There were several facets tossed around.

Clay_Allison · Apr 20, 2016

I still haven't been given any indication by the "restroom defenders" what criteria they would use to call the cops on a restroom user. Some post op trans people would cause a much bigger scene going into their original restroom than the one they operated into. Meanwhile a bunch of ugly women with short haircuts are going to have to come up with their birth certificates in order to take a piss. All over a group of people so small I, and I'm sure most of us here also, have never met one, that I know of.

Smitty · Apr 20, 2016

Yeah, there has been a huge epidemic of people using their birth gender bathrooms up until now. How can we control it despite the fact that it's been completely controlled to date?

fortsbest · Apr 20, 2016

I don't think it's a 50/50 split on males with male parts using men's rooms. It could be on Gay marriage, I doubt it is on helping pay for gender assignment surgery, abortion and over reaching by school administrators who think they know better what to teach your kids than you do.

fortsbest · Apr 20, 2016

Clay_Allison said:
I still haven't been given any indication by the "restroom defenders" what criteria they would use to call the cops on a restroom user. Some post op trans people would cause a much bigger scene going into their original restroom than the one they operated into. Meanwhile a bunch of ugly women with short haircuts are going to have to come up with their birth certificates in order to take a piss. All over a group of people so small I, and I'm sure most of us here also, have never met one, that I know of.

HOw about people just use use the one that they have parts for, or.....use the one that many places have that is separate for families (usually for people with kids) that is usually a single restroom that is lockable. How hard would that be? IT serves the same purpose of allowing a person that has to change a baby to have some privacy rather than undressing a baby in front of others. Gee, some modesty in people. But we are a sexually repressed country so that is why we have it.

L.T. Fan · Apr 20, 2016

Clay_Allison said:
I still haven't been given any indication by the "restroom defenders" what criteria they would use to call the cops on a restroom user. Some post op trans people would cause a much bigger scene going into their original restroom than the one they operated into. Meanwhile a bunch of ugly women with short haircuts are going to have to come up with their birth certificates in order to take a piss. All over a group of people so small I, and I'm sure most of us here also, have never met one, that I know of.

I think you are making this aspect more difficult than it is. There is no need to nail down a "suspicious" criteria. When something is obvious or discovered would be the same "system" that has been I place all along. Some things are very obvious and raise the flags such as cameras, obvious gender identification etc. That approach has been I place for years. People aren't trying to find something to cry wolf about unless something actually raises the flags.

Jiggyfly · Apr 20, 2016

L.T. Fan said:
What aspect is 50/50? The operation, the shared restrooms the idea of the practice, which or what. There were several facets tossed around.

People that agree with him and ones that don't.

Then you have a couple who kind of neutral.

Jiggyfly · Apr 20, 2016

fortsbest said:
I don't think it's a 50/50 split on males with male parts using men's rooms. It could be on Gay marriage, I doubt it is on helping pay for gender assignment surgery, abortion and over reaching by school administrators who think they know better what to teach your kids than you do.

I am talking about people commenting in this thread, it's been about even.

townsend · Apr 20, 2016

mschmidt64 said:
Yeah, there has been a huge epidemic of people using their birth gender bathrooms up until now. How can we control it despite the fact that it's been completely controlled to date?

If it was "completely controlled" to date then states wouldn't be drafting new legislation to prevent it. There were probably plenty of visually passing trans (those that favor their identified gender) that went into the restrooms they wanted to.

Your logic is the same that supposes that before gays were allowed in the military, there were no gays in the military.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 20, 2016

townsend said:
Your logic is the same that supposes that before gays were allowed in the military, there were no gays in the military.

Not really at all similar.

townsend · Apr 20, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
Not really at all similar.

It definitely is, but thanks for your thoughtful analysis. A stigmatized group seen as deviants was largely forbidden from entering service, even though there was no possible method of screening for this.

There have been trans people who've been using their preferred restroom this whole time, because no one is going to want to screen them, in the same way there were homosexuals serving in the military this whole time.

Assuming that just because an unenforceable rule exists, that it's being honored, is at best naive. It also serves to see the "threat" of a group of they're seen as a new or unprecedented thing, instead of a group that has been innocuously doing their thing in secret this whole time.

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 20, 2016

townsend said:
It definitely is, but thanks for your thoughtful analysis.

How do you put thoughtful analysis into a lazy comparison that show absolutely no similarities to the subject at hand.

A better comparison would be crimes against theft. Sure some people get away with theft and some people get caught. A transgender person is still a human with a license that designates their gender. The community may have seen them 2 days ago as a male now dressed up as a female going into the woman's bathroom. Your comparison is dumb because unlike sexuality, a person's gender is actually fairly easily tracked from birth. Your comparison is lazy because it was a lazy attempt to lump homosexuals into this argument because it's easier to defend homosexual behavior then it is to defend a woman going into the mans restroom or vice versa. I don't even care about this argument but don't pull a shitty comparison out of your ass and then try to sell it as well thought out.

townsend · Apr 20, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
How do you put thoughtful analysis into a lazy comparison that show absolutely no similarities to the subject at hand.

A better comparison would be crimes against theft. Sure some people get away with theft and some people get caught. A transgender person is still a human with a license that designates their gender. The community may have seen them 2 days ago as a male now dressed up as a female going into the woman's bathroom. Your comparison is dumb because unlike sexuality, a person's gender is actually fairly easily tracked from birth. Your comparison is lazy because it was a lazy attempt to lump homosexuals into this argument because it's easier to defend homosexual behavior then it is to defend a woman going into the mans restroom or vice versa. I don't even care about this argument but don't pull a shitty comparison out of your ass and then try to sell it as well thought out.

1: trans people have had a tendency to live on the fringe, and frequently don't carry or even possess ID. Remember the whole point of this was the assumption that there was a rule in place, and that rule was followed or enforced, when it probably wasn't, and if there was a rule that was enforced, like the ban on gays in the military, it was probably enforced arbitrarily and unevenly.

2: the people who would and could regularly use their preferred restroom wouldn't be asked for their ID.

3: it has never been an established convention in the past to screen restroom entrants based on
Their ID.

Yes it's not as nebulous as sexuality, but it's no less a breach of privacy to demand people prove their gender at the entrance of a restroom.

I compared the gays in the military specifically because I lived through the hysterics of the DADT repeal, there was quite a bit of hysterics because they thought somehow gays were just now going to be allowed in the military. That they would be spying on people in the shower and such. Even though these same people had been in the military all along.

It's an egocentric perspective that suggests that the first time you've heard of a thing, then it's the first time it has happened.

L.T. Fan · Apr 20, 2016

townsend said:
1: trans people have had a tendency to live on the fringe, and frequently don't carry or even possess ID. Remember the whole point of this was the assumption that there was a rule in place, and that rule was followed or enforced, when it probably wasn't, and if there was a rule that was enforced, like the ban on gays in the military, it was probably enforced arbitrarily and unevenly.

2: the people who would and could regularly use their preferred restroom wouldn't be asked for their ID.

3: it has never been an established convention in the past to screen restroom entrants based on
Their ID.

Yes it's not as nebulous as sexuality, but it's no less a breach of privacy to demand people prove their gender at the entrance of a restroom.

I compared the gays in the military specifically because I lived through the hysterics of the DADT repeal, there was quite a bit of hysterics because they thought somehow gays were just now going to be allowed in the military. That they would be spying on people in the shower and such. Even though these same people had been in the military all along.

It's an egocentric perspective that suggests that the first time you've heard of a thing, then it's the first time it has happened.

Now I'm wondering how you know so much about them. :unsure

Cowboysrock55 · Apr 20, 2016

townsend said:
I compared the gays in the military specifically because I lived through the hysterics of the DADT repeal, there was quite a bit of hysterics because they thought somehow gays were just now going to be allowed in the military.

DADT didn't ban gays from the military as you suggest. Which just further illustrates what a bad comparison this is. A comparable rule would be telling a transgender person they can use whatever bathroom they like, just don't whip your dick out in the middle of the woman's restroom.

Shit asking someone at the door of a bathroom their gender is more akin to asking someone trying to get into a bar if they are 21 or not. Sure it's an invasion of privacy but not a major one. There are also physical characteristics that can be viewed to tip someone off to a person being underage just like their are physical characteristics to tip someone off to a female entering a male bathroom or vice versa.

townsend · Apr 20, 2016

Cowboysrock55 said:
DADT didn't ban gays from the military as you suggest. Which just further illustrates what a bad comparison this is. A comparable rule would be telling a transgender person they can use whatever bathroom they like, just don't whip your dick out in the middle of the woman's restroom.

Except that it did as much as anything, there's essentially no distinction, since if you were outted as gay (even if you didn't want to be) you were still kicked out. DADT was a ban on gays, that knew it was unenforceable, so it just acknowledged that gays were in the military without accepting it. It would be like saying, "you can use the women's restroom as long as we can't prove your not a woman." Which is effectively what the convention has always been.

Shit asking someone at the door of a bathroom their gender is more akin to asking someone trying to get into a bar if they are 21 or not. Sure it's an invasion of privacy but not a major one. There are also physical characteristics that can be viewed to tip someone off to a person being underage just like their are physical characteristics to tip someone off to a female entering a male bathroom or vice versa.

So we're talking about a bouncer working outside every restroom, turning away every person without ID. You don't see that as an absurd overreaction to screen out a group of people who are almost universally harmless?

A week of LGBTQ acceptance education in a middle school. Really?

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