Archer: Like Pats, Cowboys have to do more with less

Smitty

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Zimmer doesn't have that track record, but he's never been a head coach, much less head coach and defensive coordinator at the same time. Another coach may respect balance and bring discipline, but absurdly overvalue players with whom he is familiar in lieu of younger, more talented players (as an example). Every single coach has weaknesses, and the coach that replaces Garrett will have them, too. It'll take us about 6 games to get sick of them, too, but they won't disappear with the next guy.
You can go ahead and put it down in pen that the next coach here will have certain posters saying how he sucks. It happens to every coach who passes through here, just like it happened to Sean Payton and Bill Parcells when they were here.

The only real way to prevent it from losing control is to get a guy good enough -- like a Parcells, or a Harbaugh, someone with either enough skins or enough obvious talent -- that they can survive the trying times that come with this franchise, the times that they struggle more (and have people doubt them more) than they would elsewhere simply because it's Dallas and the circus.

And while I don't speak for Schmitty, I am certainly willing to take a chance on a coach, even if he hasn't proven himself as a head coach (though that would obviously be preferable). Garrett has been the very definition of average, unlike the guy who he replaced. I'd be happy to replace him with Saban. I would have taken O'Brien. I could be convinced that Shaw or maybe Wisenhunt have potential. But replace average with a hotshot coordinator, or Caldwell, Zimmer, Jay Gruden, or Lovie Smith just to do this again in three years? Meh.
I think I'm saying pretty much the same thing, though I might debate you on which coaches we agree should be replacements.
 

Smitty

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Smitty: He does some things very well.

Smart person: Like what?

Smitty: Stuff. ~names a bunch of things he does well even though he knows the window lickers he's debating have already made up their minds to deny that Garrett does anything well~
Fixed.
 

Cotton

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Making the team wear ties to the stadium doesn't count. Now you go.
 

Smitty

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Making the team wear ties to the stadium doesn't count. Now you go.
It does count, actually. Acting professional off the field breeds professionalism in the rest of the areas, it's a good message to send.

But I'll give you another one.... he makes them practice and show up on time for team meetings and study sessions. He also has done a pretty good job most weeks of keeping them focused, like after the Jerry Brown death.

Can't wait till the next time I have someone tell me I can't name anything he does well, that will be fun.

Oh, he's also not a half bad offensive coach.
 

Cotton

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It does count, actually. Acting professional off the field breeds professionalism in the rest of the areas, it's a good message to send.

But I'll give you another one.... he makes them practice and show up on time for team meetings and study sessions. He also has done a pretty good job most weeks of keeping them focused, like after the Jerry Brown death.
:lol

So, he makes them show up to practice and study sessions just like every other coach in the league.

Try again.
 

Smitty

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:lol

So, he makes them show up to practice and study sessions just like every other coach in the league.

Try again.
Well, after seeing guys like Switzer and Campo not make them do that, uh, no, not every coach in the league does it.
 

Cotton

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I'd be really curious what coaches don't make the players show up to practice.
 

midswat

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Yeah... pretty sure most coaches require players to show up on time.


And when will this wearing suit and ties thing + showing up to meetings thing translate to on the field success?


Because I'll take a team full of drunken wife beaters if it means I get to enjoy oh I don't know a playoff win more than once a decade.
 

Cotton

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Now Smitty will argue that most coaches doesn't mean the same as "all coaches in the league" for 3 pages.
 
D

Deuce

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Our last coach didn't.
So how bout we settle on...

Wade sucked worse than Garrett. Garrett still sucks, just not as bad. Most coaches will be better than Garrett. Just don't hire a proven loser like Garrett or Wade to create more problems.

/thread
 

midswat

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I bet Wade Phillips was all like "Hey gais! Your agenda says film review is at 10am, but you know thats like give or take. Just try an be there by 10:15 or so but if not no biggies hehe k?"

Then Jason was all like "10 means 10! Not! Joking!" and the players all just sort of shat themselves a little.

This guy means bizness!


.... and still went out every year and underachieved!


But hey, they're some timely motherfuckers!
 

Cotton

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Hay, guyz, Garrett makes the players work out and stuff. Lombardi!
 

Smitty

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So how bout we settle on...

Wade sucked worse than Garrett. Garrett still sucks, just not as bad. Most coaches will be better than Garrett. Just don't hire a proven loser like Garrett or Wade to create more problems.

/thread
I'll settle on Garrett is not one of the worst coaches in the league, but he's not good enough to succeed here and should be replaced by someone we either know is quality, or someone we have a very, very good feeling is quality, and thus have a belief that he can succeed here under negative circumstances working with Jerry?

That'll work for me.
 

midswat

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I'll settle on Garrett is not one of the worst coaches in the league, but he's not good enough to succeed here and should be replaced by someone we either know is quality, or someone we have a very, very good feeling is quality, and thus have a belief that he can succeed here under negative circumstances working with Jerry?

That'll work for me.
Can you name an honest 5 coaches who are worse than him?

As in... 5 coaches who were handed a team one year off a playoff appearance, with a franchise QB and a hall of fame pass rusher, placed in a relatively weak division.... who did less?

Lets not compare Garrett to a coach who took over a 2 win team here. Garrett had the tools in place to succeed, for the most part.

Can you honestly give me 5 guys who are worse?
 

NoDak

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So now the new mantra as getting us over the hump, eh? Over the hump? Christ, Garrett hasn't been able to get us TO the f'n hump.
 

Smitty

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Can you name an honest 5 coaches who are worse than him?
I can if you don't qualify-out every other coach in the league.

As in... 5 coaches who were handed a team one year off a playoff appearance, with a franchise QB and a hall of fame pass rusher, placed in a relatively weak division.... who did less?
Are there any other coaches in the league who took over a team under these exact same circumstances?

How about I name coaches who took over generally average rosters? Because that's our team. Not very good.

It's not like you swap out coaches and have an automatic deep playoff team.

Garrett had the tools in place to succeed, for the most part.
A lot of coaches have similarly talented teams and don't win many or any playoff games. Sometimes it takes them a number of years, like in Jeff Fisher's case. He went 8-8 for 3 straight years in Tennessee, I believe.

Can you honestly give me 5 guys who are worse?
Last year I would have said Frazier, Philbin, Allen, McCoy, Trestman, Marrone, Schwartz, Schiano, Munchak, Chudzinski, Arians, Ron Rivera, etc. Many of those names got fired, and McCoy proved me wrong to an extent by winning a playoff game (though I'd say he took a team that is probably a little more talented only about 2 games further). Arians also looked pretty good despite not making the playoffs. Rivera I don't know what to think. His team got hot but it wouldn't surprise me to see them go 4-12 next year either.

The rest of those names stand, I'd say, as either clearly worse or clearly not demonstrably better. I'd say most of the guys hired to replace any of the fired guys also fall into that category.
 

Smitty

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So now the new mantra as getting us over the hump, eh? Over the hump? Christ, Garrett hasn't been able to get us TO the f'n hump.
I'd say borderline playoff team is the hump, with legit contender being where I'm saying a good coach can get us.

With the only step above that being Consistent Super Bowl favorite, which is just not possible with a Jerry GM'd team, most likely.
 
D

Deuce

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Last year I would have said Frazier, Philbin, Allen, McCoy, Trestman, Marrone, Schwartz, Schiano, Munchak, Chudzinski, Arians, Ron Rivera, etc. Many of those names got fired, and McCoy proved me wrong to an extent by winning a playoff game (though I'd say he took a team that is probably a little more talented only about 2 games further). Arians also looked pretty good despite not making the playoffs. Rivera I don't know what to think. His team got hot but it wouldn't surprise me to see them go 4-12 next year either.

The rest of those names stand, I'd say, as either clearly worse or clearly not demonstrably better. I'd say most of the guys hired to replace any of the fired guys also fall into that category.
So you have Philbin, Allen and Trestman left. I don't agree on judging Trestman yet and honestly seeing how his offense worked with a backup QB for multiple games I came away impressed. But even if we leave him on the list, you're saying only 3 current coaches are worse than Garrett?
 

NoDak

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How about I name coaches who took over generally average rosters? Because that's our team. Not very good.
Now, this is an interesting statement. Depending on which agenda is being pushed, the talent on the roster at the time changes drastically.

What's that? We're discussing whether Wade Phillips is shitty? Parcells left him with a roster stocked with talent. HOF TE, passrusher, elite QB, etc... The team was ready to win. Oh, what's that you say? The topic du jour has switched to Garrett being shitty? He had nothing to work with. A roster that's not very good. He got us to 8-8 with basically nothing.

Even though the roster was basically the same. All the key players still in their prime. Now we'll hear about the OL, or some other deflection. But if we're honest, the OL sucked balls when "the roster was ready to win", too.

Ol' Punchline is workin' it! :lol
 
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