QB Controversy Thread...

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If Giants lose tomorrow, 9 routes all MNF. Gotta get it ready or it's one-and-done.
 

mcnuttz

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I already posted this stat in another thread, but you're right in that we didn't need to throw many 25+ yarders over the course of the season because Zeke leads the lead in 10+ yard runs.

Because of that, Dallas leads the league in big plays (sum of 25+ passes and 10+ runs) overall. Dak might not be "dinking", but call it "Dakking"-- throwing next to no passes over 20 yards. We are methodical.

This methodical approach is fine taken over the course of a 16-game season (if you can control turnovers and penalties) because the approach will win on average.

But now the penalties might actually be getting worse and we have been fumbling the ball away too, lately. We are wearing down a bit and the competition is improving.

We simply need to see the explosive deep passes we had in Pittsburgh to defeat the NFL's best teams.

I don't think we can dial them up.

At some point a team will force him to make those deep throws, so it would be nice to start hitting on a few deep passes before the playoffs.
 

ravidubey

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At some point a team will force him to make those deep throws, so it would be nice to start hitting on a few deep passes before the playoffs.
You say it so much more clearly than I do. I have issues with long posts.

I don't think we need the deep pass to win. All we need to do is clean up the stupid penalties. Clean games against NY and TB result in a win in NY and a blowout against TB.
Each play has a base chance of a penalty, turnover, or injury, correct? The more plays, the greater the chances. If the defense feels they have less field to cover, those plays become harder to execute-- especially against good defenses.

This is how we beat the Steelers in the 1995-96 Superbowl. They ran 80+ offensive plays and couldn't eliminate turnovers. Our secondary beat the crap out of their WRs, they ran the wrong routes, and Larry Brown got two huge picks.

The deep shot reduces the number of plays and also keeps the defense honest.

And we definitely needed it in Pittsburgh this year-- two 50+ plays and we won by 5.
 
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Cotton

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At some point a team will force him to make those deep throws, so it would be nice to start hitting on a few deep passes before the playoffs.
Hard for then to force deep throws when he has a running game like he does. They have to pick their poison.
 

Cotton

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You say it so much more clearly than I do. I have issues with long posts.



Each play has a base chance of a penalty, turnover, or injury, correct? The more plays, the greater the chances. If the defense feels they have less field to cover, those plays become harder to execute-- especially against good defenses.

This is how we beat the Steelers in the 1995-96 Superbowl. They ran 80+ offensive plays and couldn't eliminate turnovers. Our secondary beat the crap out of their WRs, they ran the wrong routes, and Larry Brown got two huge picks.

The deep shot reduces the number of plays and also keeps the defense honest.

And we definitely needed it in Pittsburgh this year-- two 50+ plays and we won by 5.
So, run less plays to cut down on the possibility of penalty/turnovers?
 

ravidubey

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So, run less plays to cut down on the possibility of penalty/turnovers?
More like penalty/turnovers are a side effect of running a lot of plays. 13 play drives are hard to sustain.

Against lesser competition we can do what we want and will usually gradually pull away. Washington was a one score game, but it wasn't really in doubt because we're definitely the better team.

As long as we don't crap the bed, the methodical strategy will defeat most opponents.

The one game I hang my hat on was Pittsburgh. That was a truly great win against a challenging opponent in hostile territory. We had monster big plays in that game and needed every bit.
 

townsend

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You say it so much more clearly than I do. I have issues with long posts.



Each play has a base chance of a penalty, turnover, or injury, correct? The more plays, the greater the chances. If the defense feels they have less field to cover, those plays become harder to execute-- especially against good defenses.

This is how we beat the Steelers in the 1995-96 Superbowl. They ran 80+ offensive plays and couldn't eliminate turnovers. Our secondary beat the crap out of their WRs, they ran the wrong routes, and Larry Brown got two huge picks.

The deep shot reduces the number of plays and also keeps the defense honest.

And we definitely needed it in Pittsburgh this year-- two 50+ plays and we won by 5.
This makes the incorrect assumption that all plays carry the same probability of injury/turnover/penalty which isn't the case at all. Also more plays on offense means less plays on defense, where most of our injuries have occurred.
 

ravidubey

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This makes the incorrect assumption that all plays carry the same probability of injury/turnover/penalty which isn't the case at all. Also more plays on offense means less plays on defense, where most of our injuries have occurred.
More concerned with turnovers and offensive holding penalties, neither of which discriminate about play calls. We're holding on every kind of play, long or short, run or pass, and our turnovers have increased of late.

Only Oakland and Baltimore have more than our 28 offensive holding calls.
 

mcnuttz

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Hard for then to force deep throws when he has a running game like he does. They have to pick their poison.

And then you're in the playoffs/superbowl and a team stops the running game.

There are some top-notch defenses in the AFC and I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be just fine.

Every offense can be stopped when you have 2 weeks to put a defensive plan together in the biggest game of the year.

Defense wins championships because they study an offenses tendencies and attack.

I hope we win it all by running Zeke down their throats, but it's silly not to have contingencies in place when what you've been doing breaks down. I expect the IvyLeaguer to get this.
 

L.T. Fan

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And then you're in the playoffs/superbowl and a team stops the running game.

There are some top-notch defenses in the AFC and I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be just fine.

Every offense can be stopped when you have 2 weeks to put a defensive plan together in the biggest game of the year.

Defense wins championships because they study an offenses tendencies and attack.

I hope we win it all by running Zeke down their throats, but it's silly not to have contingencies in place when what you've been doing breaks down. I expect the IvyLeaguer to get this.
That's the ticket. At the playoff level a team has to have alternatives and contingencies. Playing the same schemes that got you there will play right into the hands of the opponent.
 

GShock

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This makes the incorrect assumption that all plays carry the same probability of injury/turnover/penalty which isn't the case at all. Also more plays on offense means less plays on defense, where most of our injuries have occurred.
And without disparaging the effort or performance of the defense in the last game, the fewer plays our defense is on the field, the better.
 

Cowboysrock55

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And without disparaging the effort or performance of the defense in the last game, the fewer plays our defense is on the field, the better.
I would think most NFL teams would think that. Even if you have the best defense in the NFL, you still want to play them as little as possible. The more a defense plays the more likely something bad will happen.
 

Rev

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Guyz!! Brady will be dropping dimes all day!
 

Cotton

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And then you're in the playoffs/superbowl and a team stops the running game.

There are some top-notch defenses in the AFC and I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be just fine.

Every offense can be stopped when you have 2 weeks to put a defensive plan together in the biggest game of the year.

Defense wins championships because they study an offenses tendencies and attack.

I hope we win it all by running Zeke down their throats, but it's silly not to have contingencies in place when what you've been doing breaks down. I expect the IvyLeaguer to get this.
Zeke has had almost double the 8+ man boxes than LeVeon Bell has had, and still averages more per carry. Sure, they can slow down the run game, but no one has completely stopped it. We have hurt ourselves more in the run game by stupid play calls than defenses actually stopping it. Beside, even when the run game has slowed, our passing game has stepped up (even without long bombs) minus the NY game. Our offense will be fine just the way it is. I think it would be dumb to change things up now and try to force it deep simply because it's the only thing about our game that's lacking.
 

p1_

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And then you're in the playoffs/superbowl and a team stops the running game. There are some top-notch defenses in the AFC and I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be just fine.
Strong defense doesnt distinguish between regular and post season . We have been battle tested by the strongest defenses in the league this season, the Giants being the ONLY one to bottle up the run game in the first game of the season, and then Minnesota to some extent (86 yards). We will use the same formula that has been our strength all year long. And believe me, it will work. It's not magic, not contingent on stars aligning, and certainly no secret sauce. Its more an act of brute force imposing its will on those in its path. This offense is for real and will repeat its successful formula in the playoffs.
 
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