Will Cowboys pay RG Zack Martin in excess of $13 million per year?

NoDak

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Once they get too costly, even some all timers move on to different teams.
Which all timers would that be? I don't recall any off the top of my head that left their teams while in their primes. Of course, our definitions of all timer might not be the same.
 

Smitty

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Yeah, I don't know why it always has to be such a cat and mouse game. There's a framework, a template for what the guy should be paid. Just get somewhere close to that and be done with it. Why is there always such bullshit drama?
Maybe it would be nice to win a contract negotiation for once. He's not going anywhere.
 

ravidubey

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Another variable is Demarcus Lawrence’s contract. Specifics for each are easier to determine if they can get DLAW’s franchise number of 17 million off this year’s cap.
 

deadrise

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Maybe it would be nice to win a contract negotiation for once. He's not going anywhere.

Who "wins" a contract negotiation? If a player, especially a player like Martin, winds up with less than he thinks he should be getting, what good does that do anybody?

There's a template -- what are the top two or three guards in the league getting? That's where he should be. If he gets, say, half a million more, give or take, who cares? Who loses?
 

p1_

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With every player on the oline being of high caliber, where's the tipping point of salary? How many of these guys can be paid top tier dollar concurrently?
 

Simpleton

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Pay him.

I don't think he's a risk to regress after an extension like a Miles Austin or Tyrone Crawford (lacking pure talent, not elite, only 1-2 years of top-level play), Bryant (head case, unwilling or unable to adjust to effects of injury), Marion Barber (head case, short shelf life position) and so forth. Extending him now is a lot like extending a prime Witten, you have a guy with a long track record of elite play, a great work ethic, his game isn't reliant on explosive athleticism so he'd be more durable coming back from an injury and no red flags on or off the field.

There is significantly less risk in extending him compared to other candidates like Lawrence (health, only one year of elite play so far) or Irving (head case, never had a full season of elite play).

The only real issue is the relative value of his position but that is more of a theoretical/philosophical thing, this team is more reliant on the OL than any other in the league so I think that argument goes out the window for this particular organization.
 

Simpleton

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With every player on the oline being of high caliber, where's the tipping point of salary? How many of these guys can be paid top tier dollar concurrently?
Tyron is getting paid well below market value, Collins is only being paid around 7 a year and Williams is on a rookie deal.

As far as Collins, if he doesn't take a few steps forward this season and next I'd let him go once his deal runs out after the 2019 season.
 

p1_

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deadrise

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Pay him.

I don't think he's a risk to regress after an extension like a Miles Austin or Tyrone Crawford (lacking pure talent, not elite, only 1-2 years of top-level play), Bryant (head case, unwilling or unable to adjust to effects of injury), Marion Barber (head case, short shelf life position) and so forth. Extending him now is a lot like extending a prime Witten, you have a guy with a long track record of elite play, a great work ethic, his game isn't reliant on explosive athleticism so he'd be more durable coming back from an injury and no red flags on or off the field.

There is significantly less risk in extending him compared to other candidates like Lawrence (health, only one year of elite play so far) or Irving (head case, never had a full season of elite play).

The only real issue is the relative value of his position but that is more of a theoretical/philosophical thing, this team is more reliant on the OL than any other in the league so I think that argument goes out the window for this particular organization.

At some point they're going to have to invest a lot of money in Zeke. So why not invest the money in the O-line that will ultimately protect the investment in Zeke?

Plus, guards tend to have long shelf-lives -- longer than, say, RBs or LBs. They're usually not head cases or prima donnas like WRs.
 

Cowboysrock55

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2018 Left Tackle Cap Hit Rankings

1 Tyron Smith Left Tackle $17,545,000
2 Russell Okung Left Tackle $14,968,750
3 Eric Fisher Left Tackle $13,950,000
4 Trent Williams Left Tackle $13,856,250
5 Terron Armstead Left Tackle $13,500,000
~~~~~~~~
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/left-tackle/

I must be missing something.
That cap charge actually drops after this year. Of course we do that so we can restructure if needed.
 

Smitty

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Who "wins" a contract negotiation? If a player, especially a player like Martin, winds up with less than he thinks he should be getting, what good does that do anybody?

There's a template -- what are the top two or three guards in the league getting? That's where he should be. If he gets, say, half a million more, give or take, who cares? Who loses?
Surely there is a scenario where player of Martin's caliber could get say top 6 money or top 10 money instead of top 3 money and yet still feel satisfied with his deal.

Just sayin'. There's no reason to immediately give him the moon. You don't want to play such hardball that there are bad feelings but value deals are out there at times.
 

Simpleton

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2018 Left Tackle Cap Hit Rankings

1 Tyron Smith Left Tackle $17,545,000
2 Russell Okung Left Tackle $14,968,750
3 Eric Fisher Left Tackle $13,950,000
4 Trent Williams Left Tackle $13,856,250
5 Terron Armstead Left Tackle $13,500,000
~~~~~~~~
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/left-tackle/

I must be missing something.
He was well below that for the past few seasons, I guess they had it planned to jump this year.

His cap hits decrease over the next few years though, by 2020, 2021 or so he'll still only be 31 but his cap hits will be down to about $12-13 a year, which should be far below what the top LT's are getting paid.

Of course he has to stay healthy in the meantime.
 

Simpleton

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Surely there is a scenario where player of Martin's caliber could get say top 6 money or top 10 money instead of top 3 money and yet still feel satisfied with his deal.

Just sayin'. There's no reason to immediately give him the moon. You don't want to play such hardball that there are bad feelings but value deals are out there at times.
While this is generally true I think it's unrealistic to expect this with Martin.

The market has been clearly set by guys like Norwell and Zeitler who are clearly inferior players. It's going to be $13-14 a year for Martin and that's that.
 

p1_

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Collins and Frederick are in the midmarket figures, so thats amenable, especially with the rook at LG. But Martins deal will be top of market.
 

fortsbest

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I know they are likely looking at a 5 year deal or so, but why wouldn't they consider a 7-10 year deal like they did for Tyron. Go to Martin and say hey, we want you to be a Cowboy for life. here's 8 years, 105 with 40-50 up front. That's a bit over 13 mil a year. Structure it however you need to to make it salary cap friendly. In 8 years, he could still get another contract if he's as good as we think. Would that get it done you think?
 

Simpleton

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I know they are likely looking at a 5 year deal or so, but why wouldn't they consider a 7-10 year deal like they did for Tyron. Go to Martin and say hey, we want you to be a Cowboy for life. here's 8 years, 105 with 40-50 up front. That's a bit over 13 mil a year. Structure it however you need to to make it salary cap friendly. In 8 years, he could still get another contract if he's as good as we think. Would that get it done you think?
Smith was like 24 when he signed that deal, Martin will turn 28 during this season so I don't think it's as feasible.

I'd be comfortable giving him a 6 year deal but 8+ would be a bit ridiculous.
 

fortsbest

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Oh, I didn't think about his age. But still if he signed it now, he'd be 35 when done. For a great guard, that's still not bad.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Smith was like 24 when he signed that deal, Martin will turn 28 during this season so I don't think it's as feasible.

I'd be comfortable giving him a 6 year deal but 8+ would be a bit ridiculous.
Yeah I think a 6 year deal is about perfect. Would put him at 33 when it expires. He is a guard with no injury history so I'd be pretty happy with that. I'm guessing he will play at a really high level to that point at least.
 

p1_

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Imagine if we manage to keep Smith, Frederick and Martin for their entire careers.
 

Rev

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Imagine if we manage to keep Smith, Frederick and Martin for their entire careers.
The pessimist in me thinks Smiths back is going to flush that in a year or two.
 
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