A new dead horse to beat: What are your reactions to the NFL's anti-kneeling rule?

deadrise

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My first reaction is that it's well within the rights of the league (owners) to make the rule and enforce it.

They (owners) own the teams, the stadiums, the TV contracts, the uniforms (logos) and in a sense, they own the players by virtue of the contracts.

An employer, generally, has the right the regulate activity at the workplace and set the terms of employment. If I stand up on my desk and start yelling about what a great thing Marxism is, or reading aloud from Mein Kampf, my employer has the right to shut me up and, if necessary, fire me. Free speech does not extend into disrupting a work environment.

I read one interpretation that claimed the rule was illegal because the players operate under a union contract, and that the NFL can't change rules without consulting the union. Not sure I buy that.

I think the NFL is stupid and tone-deaf (big surprise) to raise the issue again and make it a point of contention. I think the players would stupid to fight it, and/or test it.

The players made their point. Yes, the issue is serious and needs to be addressed. Disrespecting the flag and the anthem won't solve it. It will only antagonize and divide.

The players are public figures. They would have plenty of platforms and venues, outside the games themselves, from which to voice opinions.

It seems everything is this country these days is a zero-sum game. Don't talk things over, wage all-out war instead. Scorched-earth ideology carries the day.
 

townsend

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My first reaction is that it's well within the rights of the league (owners) to make the rule and enforce it.

They (owners) own the teams, the stadiums, the TV contracts, the uniforms (logos) and in a sense, they own the players by virtue of the contracts.

An employer, generally, has the right the regulate activity at the workplace and set the terms of employment. If I stand up on my desk and start yelling about what a great thing Marxism is, or reading aloud from Mein Kampf, my employer has the right to shut me up and, if necessary, fire me. Free speech does not extend into disrupting a work environment.

I read one interpretation that claimed the rule was illegal because the players operate under a union contract, and that the NFL can't change rules without consulting the union. Not sure I buy that.

I think the NFL is stupid and tone-deaf (big surprise) to raise the issue again and make it a point of contention. I think the players would stupid to fight it, and/or test it.

The players made their point. Yes, the issue is serious and needs to be addressed. Disrespecting the flag and the anthem won't solve it. It will only antagonize and divide.

The players are public figures. They would have plenty of platforms and venues, outside the games themselves, from which to voice opinions.

It seems everything is this country these days is a zero-sum game. Don't talk things over, wage all-out war instead. Scorched-earth ideology carries the day.
I think this is probably the dumbest thing the NFL could do. Tone deafness has been the biggest issue with these owners, and after Trump waded into this, and the Houston owner compared his players to inmates, they should have done a lot more to not immediately get on the bad side of a league that’s like 80% black men. Even if nothing big happens protest wise this year, they’ve sewn even more distrust, and I think the odds of a lockout year have more than doubled.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Right rule wrong way to implement it. Players will forget about it quickly though. The whole kneeling thing had already passed. Or close to it.
 

data

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Let’s not pretend the NFL is doing this all in the name of patriotism.

Almost in a way, I cringe seeing our military personnel on the football field with endzones painted, coaches and players wearing camo - $100 sideline jackets, $40 camo hats and $24 camo towels. There’s a fine line between appreciation/honoring our military and exploitation. Our military being paraded around like circus animals so the NFL can seem patriotic as they collect seven-digit payments from the DoD. Wasn’t until Trump stepped in to call them out that the NFL took action.

Not as egregious, but it’s almost like the ‘No More’ movement, with every NFL-sponsored commercial garnering an eye roll as they follow it up with NFL women’s clothing line commercial.
 

lostxn

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I think the NFL is in a no-win scenario. They want fans, period. They don't want to be involved in divisive politics at all. Sure there are some owners that may have a strong opinion one way or the other but most just don't want fewer eyeballs and fewer butts in seats. I've spoken to a lot of people who took last year off from the NFL because of the kneeling issue. It turned them off. I think that's ridiculous but what can you do. Picking a side means you're pissing off the other side and losing fans. It's no-win. Trump wading in really hurt the NFL because he has a ton of mindless followers who will eat up everything he says. By the way, I'm sure Obama had his share of mindless followers too if that makes people feel better about their choices.

Interestingly, many black Americans are now saying they will be less interested in the NFL due to the pandering. However, I think the NFL has decided chasing the white dollars over the black dollars. It's pretty hard to disagree with the math on that but again they would rather just not be having the conversation.

As for townsend's remark about the workforce, he's correct. This will be a labor issue. They already despise the commissioner. I can't imagine there won't be a lockout but I've thought that for over a year now. Still, in the end the players are better off with more fans than less as well.
 

lostxn

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Let’s not pretend the NFL is doing this all in the name of patriotism.

Almost in a way, I cringe seeing our military personnel on the football field with endzones painted and camo towels adorned by players. There’s a fine line between appreciation/honoring our military and exploitation. Our military being paraded around like circus animals so the NFL can seem patriotic as they collect seven-digit payments from the DoD while the NFL played the tax system for decades as a non-profit.

Not as egregious, but it’s almost like the ‘No More’ movement, with every NFL-sponsored commercial garnering an eye roll as they follow it up with NFL women’s clothing line commercial.
It's good business to wrap your product in the flag. But I like the honoring of the military at games. It's a small way to show appreciation. It's better than a fucking a military parade...
 

data

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It's good business to wrap your product in the flag. But I like the honoring of the military at games. It's a small way to show appreciation. It's better than a fucking a military parade...
Overall, as a fan, I like this mass gathering/venue opportunity to show military my appreciation, too. Love the flyovers and Whitney Houston moments. It just has started to feel a bit tarnished when I’m waving my flag in one hand while the NFL is slimingly holding up my other hand giving me the salesman’s wink. Fucking Don King-style.
 

data

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It's good business to wrap your product in the flag. But I like the honoring of the military at games. It's a small way to show appreciation. It's better than a fucking a military parade...
Military parades are dope, though. Especially the Blue Angels.
 

L.T. Fan

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Didn’t the teams stay in the locker rooms for several years while the game preliminaries were being done?

I recall that what you saw on the tube was coin toss and a commercial played on tv while the players came out and lined up to play. It was rare to see any national anthem coverage if in fact one was recognized through tv coverage.

During this time I attended the Cowboys games and the National anthem was done before the coin toss but it wasn’t televised.. To me allowing the players to stay in the locker rooms was common place. Just leave it be and it will die down. The only people interested in seeing a contraversary is the media groups.
 

data

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Didn’t the teams stay in the locker rooms for several years while the game preliminaries were being done?

I recall that what you saw on the tube was coin toss and a commercial played on tv while the players came out and lined up to play. It was rare to see any national anthem coverage if in fact one was recognized through tv coverage.

During this time I attended the Cowboys games and the National anthem was done before the coin toss but it wasn’t televised.. To me allowing the players to stay in the locker rooms was common place. Just leave it be and it will die down. The only people interested in seeing a contraversary is the media groups.
Yup. Players on field didn’t start (except for Super Bowl) until NFL got paid for it. Likely kneeling players jeopardized the NFL’s payment.

Lets just say the NFL ain’t Bob Hope with this policy to ‘protect the honoring’ of military.
 

lostxn

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Military parades are dope, though. Especially the Blue Angels.
Oh shit yeah. That's a show though, not a despot-style parade designed to boost some fat tyrant.
 
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townsend

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It doesn’t really feel like military “appreciation” if the gov’t has to pay 90 million dollars for it. That’s just a paid advertisement, I guess they appreciate bud light and prilosec too.
 

Chocolate Lab

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I saw Cliff Avril on one of the talking head shows the other day. He seemed like a smart enough guy, not like some athletes. But he couldn't comprehend that he wasn't free to use his "platform" to do whatever he wanted on the field. The show hosts explained that those hours on the field are not free time, but are subject to their employers' wishes (within reason) just like any other job. He never seemed to really understand.

I agree with Jason Whitlock that a ton of these athletes have basically been brainwashed by the twitter SJW crowd into believing all kinds of things that aren't true. Those crowds don't care about either the athletes or the sports they play, though -- they're mostly using the players for their own social media popularity.
 

townsend

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I saw Cliff Avril on one of the talking head shows the other day. He seemed like a smart enough guy, not like some athletes. But he couldn't comprehend that he wasn't free to use his "platform" to do whatever he wanted on the field. The show hosts explained that those hours on the field are not free time, but are subject to their employers' wishes (within reason) just like any other job. He never seemed to really understand.

I agree with Jason Whitlock that a ton of these athletes have basically been brainwashed by the twitter SJW crowd into believing all kinds of things that aren't true. Those crowds don't care about either the athletes or the sports they play, though -- they're mostly using the players for their own social media popularity.
I’m sure there were plenty of people saying the same thing in the 60s. As it turns out, civil rights never seem important to the people who don’t need them.
 

Cujo

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I saw Cliff Avril on one of the talking head shows the other day. He seemed like a smart enough guy, not like some athletes. But he couldn't comprehend that he wasn't free to use his "platform" to do whatever he wanted on the field. The show hosts explained that those hours on the field are not free time, but are subject to their employers' wishes (within reason) just like any other job. He never seemed to really understand.

I agree with Jason Whitlock that a ton of these athletes have basically been brainwashed by the twitter SJW crowd into believing all kinds of things that aren't true. Those crowds don't care about either the athletes or the sports they play, though -- they're mostly using the players for their own social media popularity.

He's likely never had a real job so he has no point of reference. That's the only problem I have with it. You don't do that shit "on the clock." You're a professional athlete for Christ's sake. You have the media at your disposal any time you want it. Use it to do something that might actually be productive and not divisive like Deadrise was saying.
 

townsend

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He's likely never had a real job so he has no point of reference. That's the only problem I have with it. You don't do that shit "on the clock." You're a professional athlete for Christ's sake. You have the media at your disposal any time you want it. Use it to do something that might actually be productive and not divisive like Deadrise was saying.
I think there’s some lost nuance in this argument. Players sell tickets. If the NFL was just capitalizing on their ball catching, route running, ball throwing, tackling ability it’d be one thing, but this is an organization that depeds on an emotional connection to these players. These aren’t baristas at starbucks, these are people who fans love so much that they’ll pay 60 bucks for a shirt with their name on it. When the NFL gets to capitalize on your brand, on your TD celebrations and nick names and emotion and charity, personal struggle, you aren’t just an hourly employee punching your time card.
 

midswat

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I’m sure there were plenty of people saying the same thing in the 60s. As it turns out, civil rights never seem important to the people who don’t need them.
What’s the ratio of black players vs evil racist whitey in the NBA?

Because it’s been a long standing policy that players are required to stand for the national anthem

Fact is, this is a non-story and would’ve died off long ago if trump hadn’t of weighed in and the MSM didn’t keep trying to use it as a tool to falsely paint him as a racist.
 

Cotton

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I think there’s some lost nuance in this argument. Players sell tickets. If the NFL was just capitalizing on their ball catching, route running, ball throwing, tackling ability it’d be one thing, but this is an organization that depeds on an emotional connection to these players. These aren’t baristas at starbucks, these are people who fans love so much that they’ll pay 60 bucks for a shirt with their name on it. When the NFL gets to capitalize on your brand, on your TD celebrations and nick names and emotion and charity, personal struggle, you aren’t just an hourly employee punching your time card.
And, they get paid millions of dollars for the teams to capitalize on them. They are paid employees.
 

lostxn

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Fact is, this is a non-story and would’ve died off long ago if trump hadn’t of weighed in and the MSM didn’t keep trying to use it as a tool to falsely paint him as a racist.
Sorry, he has given a mountain of evidence to show he is. Even Paul Ryan accused him of making racist statements. I understand you are pretty partisan but don't let it blind you. Know what you're signing up for.

But yeah, it would have been a non-story without Trump weighing in. The original intent of the kneeling has been totally and completely lost and now it's a fealty test to the President +/- the country.

We probably should move this discussion to the politics forum...:unsure
 

lostxn

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I’m sure there were plenty of people saying the same thing in the 60s. As it turns out, civil rights never seem important to the people who don’t need them.
Yeah, this really isn't a free speech issue. There is a huge difference between "free speech" and consequence free speech. You are free to call your wife a slag whore but when you don't have sex for 3 months, the difference becomes pretty clear.
 
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