Week 13 Thursday Night Gameday Chatter | Cowboys vs Vikings | 12-1-2016

Genghis Khan

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I think the Vikings D gave us a few bouts of trouble, but lets be honest...I don't care what their D ranking is, I've watched 3-4 Vikings games and the D is not as dominant as the ranking suggests.

I expected Dallas to struggle a bit, but I was a little unnerved that Garret and Linehan couldn't find a way to get the offense in sync. Of course, the holding calls and ticky tack calls didn't help, but I thought the overall game plan sucked.
I'd agree with that.
 

Simpleton

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Minnesota's defense is completely different when Eric Kendricks is on the field, he missed two games I believe earlier in the year and their defense was still good but not quite as dominant. They aren't the best defense in the league but I think they're definitely top 5 when he's on the field.

As far as last night, well, we played three games in 11 days, the first and third of which came against two of the best and most physical defenses in the league in Baltimore and Minnesota. I can't complain too much about an off-night from the offense, especially when there were so many times where they looked to be getting in rhythm and a mostly unforced penalty or turnover killed it.
 

UncleMilti

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Dallas definitely looked fatigued, as should be expected. they have had a pretty stiff run the last 3-4 weeks.

I know I sound like a broken record, but holy shit am I concerned about this defense. You can almost watch the gradual decline as the game goes on as far as pass rush and pressure on the QB. Marinelli using Lee on a blitz is fucking retarded too, as it takes arguably our best short area cover/tackle guy out of the mix.
 

1bigfan13

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I also wouldn't worry about clinching HFA next week, there is about a 4% chance that Carolina can win at Seattle, so even if we beat the Giants we'd still need to win a game or have Seattle lose one to clinch HFA.

Best case scenario is we have everything wrapped up going into the Detroit game, and even then I think you play the starters that week as if it's for real. Then against the Eagles you play them for a half, three quarters or whatever.
That's exactly how I'd handle the Eagles game. Let the starters play about a half then bring in the backups.

I'm not a fan of sitting Dak in week 17. If you do that that's almost 3 full weeks w/o game action for a young kid who still needs reps. I wouldn't feel comfortable with him starting a playoff game coming off that much rest.
 

Jiggyfly

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At least we have one guy to build around on the DL in Collins who looks like a bona fide hit with 3 sacks on the year. Lawrence is likely a guy you'd like to keep around but he isn't a foundation type of player like Collins looks to be.
I don't see how Collins looks like a foundational player and Lawrence does not.

What Lawrence did last year is way more impressive than anything Collins has done and Crawford looked much better when he 1st moved to 3 tech.

I think Collins has a lot of upside but McClain has far outplayed him and he has disappeared for long stretches.
 

Jiggyfly

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It won't happen next game because the giants don't have the ability to stifle our offense like that.

What I'm worried about is down the line if we face another elite defense, like Seattle.
I don't think Seattle's defense is elite this year.

Minn has a much better pass rush.
 

Cowboysrock55

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True, that could happen, although it'd also take a loss from both Detroit and Atlanta, which is possible considering who they play this week but I still think alot has to happen and it probably isn't worth worrying about.

If it did happen I don't think Garrett would rest anybody until the last game of the year. Elliott's carries might get ramped down from 20-22 per game to about 15 but that's all I could imagine.
Yeah I'm not really worried about it. All I'm worried about it beating the Giants. If that clinches home field advantage that's awesome. If it doesn't then we focus on beating the Bucs and clinching homefield advantage.
 

Carp

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I have no concern about our offense. In years past, these were the kind of games we would lose. It was not pretty by any means, but at no point did I feel like we were going to lose.

This was a trap game...we just had a big win against Wash...and going to NYG next week. We very easily could have lost focus and stepped on our dicks. Instead we grind out a low scoring win. Beautiful.

As an aside...get Ty Crawford out of the DE rotation.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Minnesota's defense is completely different when Eric Kendricks is on the field, he missed two games I believe earlier in the year and their defense was still good but not quite as dominant. They aren't the best defense in the league but I think they're definitely top 5 when he's on the field.

As far as last night, well, we played three games in 11 days, the first and third of which came against two of the best and most physical defenses in the league in Baltimore and Minnesota. I can't complain too much about an off-night from the offense, especially when there were so many times where they looked to be getting in rhythm and a mostly unforced penalty or turnover killed it.
There aren't any real dominant defenses this year. The Ravens were number one in a bunch of categories before we played them but I don't think they are anything special. The Eagles are ranked pretty highly as well but I don't think they are really that dominant. Seattle is good as well but they don't look dominant this year. They are like 9th in the NFL in yards given up.

The Cardinals give up way too many points. The Broncos I guess would be in the discussion for best defense this year but they give up more points per game then Dallas. So while I don't think the Vikes defense is truly elite, I don't think there is a truly elite defense in the NFL at all this year.
 

Cowboysrock55

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As an aside...get Ty Crawford out of the DE rotation.
I'm not really sure where the Crawfords fit in any longer. They don't fit in at the DT rotation any longer with Collins, Thornton, McClain and Irving all playing well. They don't get enough pass rush at DE. They are basically early down DE's who should hit the bench on third downs.
 

ravidubey

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10 days between games and going in that stadium against that team is going to tell us whether we're just a good team that got hot, or a real contender that can get to a SB.
Landry would always use this 10 day period to his advantage, usually to fix the defense.

Let's hope this coaching staff takes this coaching bitch-slapping as motivation to similarly elevate their game.
 

Carp

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I'm not really sure where the Crawfords fit in any longer. They don't fit in at the DT rotation any longer with Collins, Thornton, McClain and Irving all playing well. They don't get enough pass rush at DE. They are basically early down DE's who should hit the bench on third downs.
I would like to see Irving at DE and shift Crawford back inside.
 

Jiggyfly

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I'm not really sure where the Crawfords fit in any longer. They don't fit in at the DT rotation any longer with Collins, Thornton, McClain and Irving all playing well. They don't get enough pass rush at DE. They are basically early down DE's who should hit the bench on third downs.
I think he would still be the best pass rusher among the DT's, Jack is definitely a spot guy at this point.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I think he would still be the best pass rusher among the DT's, Jack is definitely a spot guy at this point.
Crawford two years ago was extremely disruptive as a DT. Last year he was only meh and when he was there earlier this year he didn't really seem to do much of anything. I'm not a big fan of Tyrone Crawford at the 3 technique spot anymore. Depending on cap savings I may consider moving on from Crawford after this year.

As far as Irving at end he just looks a little too slow to close on the QB. There was a play last night where he came off the edge well but you could just see he was slower then Bradford and wasn't able to track him down. I like him better at 3 technique in our defense. Shares a lot of traits with Hatcher.
 

Texas Ace

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It won't happen next game because the giants don't have the ability to stifle our offense like that.

What I'm worried about is down the line if we face another elite defense, like Seattle.
That's a legit concern to have.

My hope is that if we were to meet Seattle in the playoffs, we would play a game more like the one against the Ravens where we composed and mistake free.

In that game, we were patient and eventually broke them down as opposed to erratic and sloppy like we were last night.

And The Giants have a very solid defensive group so I think that will stand as a better test than you expect.
 

ravidubey

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It won't happen next game because the giants don't have the ability to stifle our offense like that.

What I'm worried about is down the line if we face another elite defense, like Seattle.
Great defenses need to be shaken up with the unexpected. Our creativity on offense seems limited to Prescott scrambles at this time.

This was a problem for the 90's Cowboys, too, believe it or not.

Once in a while a non-great team like the Rams or Browns or Lions would come along, stifle our normal shit and if our goto cure-all of handing the ball off to Emmitt didn't work we were in for a long battle.

I can see the same thing happening now.

BTW, don't sell the Giants short when it comes to matching up against us. They made our OL look bad in week 1, and we had several drive-killing holding penalties as a result.

It was situations like that where Romo was at his best. But you can't argue with 11-1. Everyone has bad games.
 

Carp

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Great defenses need to be shaken up with the unexpected. Our creativity on offense seems limited to Prescott scrambles at this time.

This was a problem for the 90's Cowboys, too, believe it or not.

Once in a while a non-great team like the Rams or Browns or Lions would come along, stifle our normal shit and if our goto cure-all of handing the ball off to Emmitt didn't work we were in for a long battle.

I can see the same thing happening now.

BTW, don't sell the Giants short when it comes to matching up against us. They made our OL look bad in week 1, and we had several drive-killing holding penalties as a result.

It was situations like that where Romo was at his best. But you can't argue with 11-1. Everyone has bad games.
Creativity on offense is only Dak scrambling? The 2 games prior to the Min game put the game away when we ran a bubble screen to Beasley...which is gutsy and creative in the circumstance. Beasley was going to throw it on an end around...creative. Our screen game is nice as well...I know it didn't work last night, but on the fake end around to Dunbar, then screen back to Zeke, I loved the call...and it was creative. Even the zone read is new to us...and it has worked for the most part...oh, and it is creative.
 

ravidubey

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Creativity on offense is only Dak scrambling? The 2 games prior to the Min game put the game away when we ran a bubble screen to Beasley...which is gutsy and creative in the circumstance. Beasley was going to throw it on an end around...creative. Our screen game is nice as well...I know it didn't work last night, but on the fake end around to Dunbar, then screen back to Zeke, I loved the call...and it was creative. Even the zone read is new to us...and it has worked for the most part...oh, and it is creative.
If you say so, but the bubble screen was first used in the 49ers game and the Whitehead play has been used many times. Where are the new wrinkles? Defensive teams with players that study are going to recognize what the Cowboys are doing sooner or later.

In fact, they'd almost have to be retarded not to know what kind of plays Dallas runs.

Minny flat out took away the Witten option in the middle of the field and had Williams on lockdown. Dez beat the Vikings on a double move, but that's hardly creative just good execution and a bad read by the Vikings defense.

They took away the easy short throws, so Dallas has to find a way back to generating that intermediate rhythm-passing with multiple targets. It's time for the pass to set up the run for a change.
 
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