Turner: The Cowboys found a gem in fourth-round DE Dorance Armstrong

Simpleton

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Where's Gregory in your fine analysis? :tippytoe
Back end of the DE group, I'd only keep him if he really shows out and/or we have a back end roster spot we want to roll the dice on.

I wouldn't count on him for anything and I'd have him behind Lawrence/Charlton/Armstrong/Ealy competing for that 4th/5th spot.
 

Genghis Khan

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It's a rational explanation, but I think the original question remains: How often does a non-injured player who has first or second round stock, have an unproductive year because of a scheme change and then fall in the draft, and then end up justifying the first round stock in the league? Seems not very often. And maybe the explanation is that in college, ultra-talented players find ways to succeed despite scheme to an extent.

Exactly.
 

Smitty

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It's less of a logjam when you consider that Crawford can play on the interior just as effectively as he can at DE.

I look at it like this:

DE: Lawrence/Charlton/Armstrong/Ealy/Gregory/Tapper
DT: Collins/Ward/Price/Ash

DE/DT: Crawford/Irving/Jones

That's 13 guys, I think it would be relatively easy to trim off 3-4 of them and then play Crawford/Irving primarily on the inside with Lawrence/Charlton/Armstrong and then 1-2 of Ealy/Gregory/Tapper as the only true DE's.
I shave off Price, Ash, Datone Jones, and Ealy or Tapper, leaving 9 DL on the final roster. Let's say it's Ealy and Tapper beats him out. If you need a spot later, take it from Ward or Tapper. But yeah, this is dependent on Crawford being a MUST at tackle... we are thin there. Collins and Irving start, Crawford a reserve. Get one more body in there who can play either 1T or 3T, so Ward for now. I'd keep a guy like Ash around on the PS so you can call him up if you need a run stopping body at some point.
 

p1_

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How often does a non-injured player who has first or second round stock, have an unproductive year because of a scheme change and then fall in the draft, and then end up justifying the first round stock in the league?
I think it would be hard to answer that question accurately. Those are very specific criteria.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I think it would be hard to answer that question accurately. Those are very specific criteria.
No kidding. All I know is that a ton of middle round picks become stars in the NFL. Certainly not all of them fell to that point strictly because of injury.
 

Genghis Khan

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No kidding. All I know is that a ton of middle round picks become stars in the NFL. Certainly not all of them fell to that point strictly because of injury.
But they weren't all projected to be 1st/2nd rounders the year before.
 

Genghis Khan

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So better to never have been great in college than to have been great and then fallen back? Not really sure on that logic.
Meaning if people change their opinion on a guy that drastically after seeing more tape, logically that's for a good reason.

And being a mid rounder doesn't necessarily mean you weren't great in college. Could be measurables or injuries or character or level of competition or whatever else.

I'm not even saying one way or another, I literally said I don't know the answer.

I'm just saying it's worth thinking about.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Quincy Carter and Dwayne Goodrich
Dwayne Goodrich was because of injury.

Quincy Carter was never a first rounder. And we took the dude in the second round.

But go he was awful his junior year. You just made me go back and look at it. 1250 passing yards, 6 TDs and 10 INTs, 49.7 completion percentage and an eventual benching. Then we took him in the second round. :lol Holy shit that's bad.
 

ravidubey

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Dwayne Goodrich was because of injury.

Quincy Carter was never a first rounder. And we took the dude in the second round.

But go he was awful his junior year. You just made me go back and look at it. 1250 passing yards, 6 TDs and 10 INTs, 49.7 completion percentage and an eventual benching. Then we took him in the second round. :lol Holy shit that's bad.
We traded two 3rd round picks to get that 2nd rounder too. That was the draft where Jerry passed on Shaun Rogers in favor of Tony Dixon because he looked at the x-rays.
 

Simpleton

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There is a 0% chance Jerry actually watched anything other than like an hour of highlights of guys like Carter before drafting him. There is no way he was actually watching tape on prospects.

It's not like it would've made a difference if he had, he wouldn't know what he's looking at anyway, but I would be truly shocked if he watched actual film on prospects back in the day.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Meaning if people change their opinion on a guy that drastically after seeing more tape, logically that's for a good reason.

And being a mid rounder doesn't necessarily mean you weren't great in college. Could be measurables or injuries or character or level of competition or whatever else.

I'm not even saying one way or another, I literally said I don't know the answer.

I'm just saying it's worth thinking about.
Oh I'm just curious. I mean look at Everson Griffen for example. He never had a 10 sack year in college. Ended up going in the fourth round of the NFL draft and has become a stud. Carl Lawson is another fourth round pass rusher. He actually ended his career on a high note though with 9.5 sacks.

But when you look at a guy who over 3 years posted 15.5 sacks and 34.5 tfl's you could put those stats as right there or better than the two guys I mentioned. Just happened to be that his sophomore year was killer with 10 sacks and 20 TFL's as opposed to his JR year when he registered 2 sacks and 9.5 tackles for loss. I'll admit I would prefer those seasons to be swapped around but I can't dismiss his sophomore season just because he was asked to do something different as a junior and his numbers dropped.
 

Cotton

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This is a really weird discussion.
 

ravidubey

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There is a 0% chance Jerry actually watched anything other than like an hour of highlights of guys like Carter before drafting him. There is no way he was actually watching tape on prospects.

It's not like it would've made a difference if he had, he wouldn't know what he's looking at anyway, but I would be truly shocked if he watched actual film on prospects back in the day.
That was the x-ray draft. Shaun Rogers had a broken leg so Jerry looked at the x-rays and passed on Rogers, who contributed immediately for Detroit and was a dominant DL over the 00’s.

He drafted fucking Tony Dixon instead. Unreal.
 

p1_

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Jerry shouldnt be allowed ANY say in the draft whatsoever.
 

p1_

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I wonder if this guy could turn out to be better than Charlton.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I wonder if this guy could turn out to be better than Charlton.
I think they actually would compliment each other well. I'd love a strong 3 DE rotation though. One that doesn't include that slow turd Crawford. Him chasing down a QB is almost embarrassing. They all out run him so easily.
 
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