Turner: The Cowboys found a gem in fourth-round DE Dorance Armstrong

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,030
The Cowboys found a gem in fourth-round DE Dorance Armstrong





By Kevin Turner 1h ago

With the 116th pick in the 2018 NFL Draft, the Cowboys selected Dorance Armstrong from the University of Kansas. In a studio at The Star in Frisco, high-fives were exchanged across our broadcasting group of Bryan Broaddus, Dane Brugler, Jeff Cavanaugh, and Dave Helman.

I had a third-round grade on Armstrong and thought he was a top-five pass rusher in the draft. Armstrong had 10.5 sacks in 2016 but saw a dip in production in 2017 with only a sack and a half. He’s nearly 6’4” and 257 pounds, and as you can see in the graph below, his long arms really stand out.



One thing you should know about Armstrong is that he played for a program that went 3-33 in his three years.

Seriously. Three wins, 33 losses. That’s a real thing that happened at Kansas. Teams were definitely keying in on him as the star of the Kansas defense, so that gives you a little bit of an idea why his production dropped so much from 2016 to 2017.

Through it all, he never stopped competing. He played hard whistle-to-whistle, quarter-to-quarter, game-to-game. If you don’t believe me, I found a play that sums up his effort.

In the clip below, the Jayhawks were being creamed 43-0. He’s still playing hard. Watch him use the spin move to get off the block of the offensive tackle and make a play against a very good TCU team.



The spin move is something he leaned on regularly in college. We go back to 2016 in this clip, but here he is using the spin move to bolt inside and sack #1 overall pick Baker Mayfield.



Armstrong has a knack for turnovers too. This play is incredible, and while it may look like the runner was down, the slow motion replay showed that he wasn’t and that this is indeed a forced fumble and recovery for Dorance Armstrong. Armstrong had 3 forced fumbles in each of the last two seasons.



What really jumped off the tape for me was his burst. Despite his unimpressive 4.87 40 times at the combine, he has the play speed off the edge that can keep offensive tackles guessing. Many times on tape Armstrong would set the tackle up throughout the game and then cut inside to get past him and to the quarterback.

He’s also got some bend to his game. His 3-cone drill time at the combine was 7.12, which is excellent. The 3-cone drill is pretty indicative of what a pass-rusher might be capable of because it doesn’t test straight-area speed, but a rounded path, which obviously is the track that pass rushers have to take most of the time.



So we’ve focused on the positives. let’s talk about some of the things that need to improve. He’s a great ball tracker, but in the NFL he will need to use his hands better and play through blocks. I think he can improve in this regard, but it will take some coaching and time to develop. It’s important to remember that Armstrong is 21 years old. At Kansas he could just go get the ball carrier, that won’t be the case in the NFL. The fact that he has massively long arms really gives you hope that he’ll improve as a run-defender. I’m saying it again; He’s 21. I think he’ll eventually improve in the art of getting off blocks.

Another thing that gives you a little concern is his lack of variance when rushing the passer. He relies mostly on speed-rushing off the edge, and the occasional inside counter. That’s effective in college, but won’t be as easy in the pros. The focus in mini-camp and training camp should be to shore him up technically while also trying to work in an arm-over move, or maybe a hump move. As fast as he is off the edge, converting speed into power should continue to develop, especially as Armstrong adds a little more bulk to his frame once he gets into the Cowboys’ training regimen.


STRENGTHS​

  • BURST: Off the edge, Armstrong has the juice to blow by offensive tackles.
  • BEND: Armstrong is able to contort his body around the edge without losing momentum.
  • REACH: 35” arms give him the ability to keep blockers off his body.
  • MOTOR: I know it sounds generic, but it takes a special kind of guy to keep playing hard through the beatings his team took.


WEAKNESSES

PLAN: Sometimes it seems like Armstrong is guessing run or pass instead of truly having a pass-rush plan. That should improve with Dallas, where he’ll be asked to get up the field at the snap.
PLAY STRENGTH: Armstrong probably needs to add a little bit of weight, and should continue developing his strength in the run game.
PRODUCTION DIVE: I would mark this as a minor weakness. He was asked to rush more in 2016 than 2017, and he was the only notable player on a poor Kansas team, which allowed opposing offenses to scheme against him.

With the addition of Kony Ealy and the possible return of Randy Gregory, there is going to be a lot of competition at defensive end on the Cowboys roster. I see Demarcus Lawrence and Tyrone Crawford as the starters, with Taco Charlton being one of the backup defensive ends. The DE4 or other backup defensive end could quite possibly be Dorance Armstrong. He’ll have to beat out the oft-injured Charles Tapper, the currently-suspended Gregory, and inconsistent veteran Ealy.
Either way, the Cowboys drafting this high-ceiling pass-rusher in the fourth round is a fantastic pick, in my estimation.

HOT ROUTES


  • It’s pretty incredible how many risky players the Raiders took in this draft. I’m not even talking about the Kolton Miller pick at 15. Arden Key has off-field issues and will always be a suspension risk, and Maurice Hurst wasn’t on half the league’s draft boards. He represents great value in the fifth round, but the Raiders had also taken risks on other injured players like Nick Nelson and Brandon Parker.
  • Drew Pearson opened up a can of worms because now everybody thinks they need to go up on stage and talk trash. Nobody will top what Drew did last year.
  • Obviously, trading back into the first round and taking Lamar Jackson at pick 32 was the Ravens’ headline. But what caught me even more off guard was Baltimore selecting two tight ends in Hayden Hurst and Mark Andrews.
  • Saquon Barkley helps out Eli Manning more than any other player in the draft could have. Taking Will Hernandez in the second round was a great move by the Giants front office.
  • I had a third-round grade on Notre Dame WR Equanimeous St. Brown. He ended up going in the sixth round to the Packers. I had a second-round grade on Wake Forest pass rusher Duke Ejiofor, and the Texans got him in the sixth.
 

1bigfan13

Your favorite player's favorite player
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
27,143
He'll probably be a quality depth guy at best. A rotational DE who can start in a pinch but won't "WOW" you.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt he'll ever top 5 sacks in a year as a pro.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,621
He'll probably be a quality depth guy at best. A rotational DE who can start in a pinch but won't "WOW" you.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt he'll ever top 5 sacks in a year as a pro.
I like him better than that. I don't think he is the next Yannick Ngakoue for example but I'm also not relegating him to Selvie type levels.

He is your classic first/second round pick who had a down last year in college and fell in the draft. I like his potential though. Not sure he is ever a starter but part of that has to do with the fact he has a first round draft pick and a franchise player both extremely young sitting ahead of him.

Still wouldn't surprise me if he becomes a rotational player who really has an impact. Way better than Crawford at rushing the passer.
 

Cotton

One-armed Knife Sharpener
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
120,030
I like him better than that. I don't think he is the next Yannick Ngakoue for example but I'm also not relegating him to Selvie type levels.

He is your classic first/second round pick who had a down last year in college and fell in the draft. I like his potential though. Not sure he is ever a starter but part of that has to do with the fact he has a first round draft pick and a franchise player both extremely young sitting ahead of him.

Still wouldn't surprise me if he becomes a rotational player who really has an impact. Way better than Crawford at rushing the passer.
And, the only reason he had a down year is because they changed schemes and he was forced into playing the run first. I like the potential in this pick.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,196
He'll probably be a quality depth guy at best. A rotational DE who can start in a pinch but won't "WOW" you.

Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt he'll ever top 5 sacks in a year as a pro.
Every once in a while everything clicks for a late round pass rusher. Maybe it happens with Armstrong. At first glance he lacks something in every physical dimension.
 

Genghis Khan

The worst version of myself
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
37,707
To play devil's advocate, how many guys who were projected 1st or 2nd rounders only to fall to the middle rounds after a rough final year of college actually live up to the original 1st or 2nd round billing?

I don't know the answer but it doesn't seem like a whole lot.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,621
And, the only reason he had a down year is because they changed schemes and he was forced into playing the run first. I like the potential in this pick.
Yeah I think it would be a little different if he was playing in the same scheme and then went from 10 sacks to 1.5. I'd be far more concerned then.
 

ravidubey

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
20,196
To play devil's advocate, how many guys who were projected 1st or 2nd rounders only to fall to the middle rounds after a rough final year of college actually live up to the original 1st or 2nd round billing?

I don't know the answer but it doesn't seem like a whole lot.
Quncy Carter. Dwayne Goodrich.
 

DLK150

DCC 4Life
Joined
May 16, 2014
Messages
8,789
I don't think he's the second coming of anyone but he could wind up being a consistent 5+ sack guy with some 10+ sack years sprinkled in. I've been surprised by several guys' numbers over the years and sometimes it just comes down to scheme or who he's lined up next to.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,621
That was injuries, not a down year.
Injuries often are the cause for a down year. But you're talking about mitigating circumstances, aren't we talking about the same thing with Armstrong? Basically moving from a perfect position for him to one that totally doesn't fit him and is less likely to produce sacks?
 

Smitty

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
22,507
Injuries often are the cause for a down year. But you're talking about mitigating circumstances, aren't we talking about the same thing with Armstrong? Basically moving from a perfect position for him to one that totally doesn't fit him and is less likely to produce sacks?
It's a rational explanation, but I think the original question remains: How often does a non-injured player who has first or second round stock, have an unproductive year because of a scheme change and then fall in the draft, and then end up justifying the first round stock in the league? Seems not very often. And maybe the explanation is that in college, ultra-talented players find ways to succeed despite scheme to an extent.
 

Cowboysrock55

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
52,621
It's a rational explanation, but I think the original question remains: How often does a non-injured player who has first or second round stock, have an unproductive year because of a scheme change and then fall in the draft, and then end up justifying the first round stock in the league? Seems not very often. And maybe the explanation is that in college, ultra-talented players find ways to succeed despite scheme to an extent.
Not sure a lot of names come to mind off the top of my head who have or haven't succeed under those circumstances. Guys like Dwayne Goodrich were injury issues and not scheme related.

Either way I'm excited to see Armstrong play 4-3 RE which is his ideal fit in my opinion.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,470
I think Geno Atkins and Calais Campbell both got 1st round hype early in their college careers before kind of leveling off, and eventually getting drafted later before becoming elite at their position.

I don't think there were any scheme changes there but that was also 10 years ago so who knows?

Maliek Collins got 1st round hype after his sophomore season too I believe before they changed schemes and we got him in the early 3rd. Obviously he isn't a top-level player but he's a good starter.

As far as Armstrong goes, I don't expect him to be elite but I definitely think he could be a solid starter for us, similar to the level of player that Collins is.
 

lostxn

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 7, 2013
Messages
7,874
We have a huge logjam at DE. We need to make some decisions on some of these guys (i.e. Tapper) this year and figure out who we need to move forward with. I wish there was some news on the Randy Gregory front. If he's coming back, he needs an entire training camp and needs to play early and often in the preseason to knock the rust off.
 

Simpleton

DCC 4Life
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
17,470
It's less of a logjam when you consider that Crawford can play on the interior just as effectively as he can at DE.

I look at it like this:

DE: Lawrence/Charlton/Armstrong/Ealy/Gregory/Tapper
DT: Collins/Ward/Price/Ash

DE/DT: Crawford/Irving/Jones

That's 13 guys, I think it would be relatively easy to trim off 3-4 of them and then play Crawford/Irving primarily on the inside with Lawrence/Charlton/Armstrong and then 1-2 of Ealy/Gregory/Tapper as the only true DE's.
 
Top Bottom