Teacher: ‘I love my students, I love my job, and I feel fulfilled. But I’m broke.’

Cowboysrock55

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And what type of jobs do you think you cn get over the summer that up your yearly income that much?
I guess it sort of depends where you live. For example I live at a Lake. Bartenders over the summer here can make a fortune. Obviously that doesn't apply everywhere. But I know a husband and wife teaching combo who both do that here and they do very well. I think most teachers get pretty good benefits as well but I can't speak nationwide to that. Obviously every state is different.
 

Jiggyfly

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So wait, $57,000.00 per year isn't a living wage anymore?
Who gets 57,000?

There are only 20 states out 50 that average that and notice I said average.

http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/

Average starting salary is 35,000.

A teacher gets about 1,000 a year bump in pay if any depending on school budgets.

The average salary in your state is 47,000 with a starting salary of 30,000.

To me it's not about a living wage it's about attracting the best and brightest yes you can live on these wages but can you keep and get the best teachers with these wages.
 

Jiggyfly

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K-5 teacher overload: Too many trained, not enough jobs
Emma Beck, USA TODAY 11:14 a.m. EST February 19, 2013
But shortages remain in math, science and special education.

elementary school classroom
(Photo: Charles Rex Arbogast, AP)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

Experts say colleges and universities don't make the effort to match supply and demand
Budget cuts, hiring freezes and delayed retirements are shrinking the pool of positions
There were 1,708,057 elementary school teachers in 2010, a decrease from 1,774,295 in 2009
The nation is training twice as many K-5 elementary school teachers as needed each year, while teacher shortages remain in the content specific areas of math, science and special education.

Illinois trained roughly 10 teachers for every one position available, according to an estimate by the National Council on Teacher Quality (NCTQ), a Washington based research and policy group.
In New York, about 6,500 childhood education specialists were trained in 2010 to fill the projected demand of 2,800 in 2011, according to the state's education department and labor bureau.
Public elementary schools in Cherry Hill, N.J., average 400 to 600 applicants for one full-time position; the numbers are up to 400 for work as a long-term substitute, said George Guy, the principal for A. Russell Knight Elementary School.
NCTQ president Kate Walsh says the market is "flooded with elementary teachers" because universities and colleges don't make the effort to match supply and demand as other professions might do. Dean Donald Heller of Michigan State's College of Education says it is true that MSU does not coordinate with the state regarding how many elementary school teachers are needed. But the school produces teachers for a nationwide market, not specifically for Michigan, he countered.

The National Center for Education Statistics reported there were 1,708,057 elementary school teachers in 2010, the most recent year for which statistics are available, a decrease from 1,774,295 in 2009.

"For those coming out of college, getting a full- time position immediately is not going to happen," Guy said.

A combination of state budget cuts, hiring freezes and teachers delaying retirement has shrunk the pool of open elementary teacher positions, Guy said. New Jersey Republican Gov. Chris Christie slashed $828 million in 2010 for K-12 school funding in an effort to balance the state's deficit. In Cherry Hill, 70 non-tenured positions were cut; Guy says the district still hasn't recovered.

The future elementary teacher job outlook may not be as bleak. A 2012 Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) estimates a 17% increase in teacher employment from 2010 to 2020, citing higher enrollment and decline in student-teacher ratios. The growth is expected to be concentrated largely in the South and West, the BLS reports.

Though the oversupply of elementary education teachers persists, shortages remain in math, science and special education. Content certification in these low-staffed areas requires additional credits and hours, a discouragement for some to pursue the endorsement, said Doug Peden, the executive director of the Ohio based American Association for Employment in Education.

The Clark County School district in Clark County, Nev., presently holds 36 math vacancies, 22 science vacancies and 92 special education vacancies out of a force of 17,000 teachers, the district's press secretary, Melinda Malone, said.

The Richland School District Two in Columbia, S.C., has similar perennial shortages for math, science and special education teachers. "We have been able to fill our vacancies… However, each year we must work diligently to find suitable applicants," said Karen Lovett, the school district's executive director of human resources.

Greater communication between universities and school districts would help level supply and demand, said Richelle Patterson, a senior policy analyst at the National Education Association, a labor union that works to advance public education. "If the districts (students) want to work in have no turnover, then school districts should translate that information to (university) preparation programs," she said.

_______________________________________________

I think part of this is a supply side as well. If you have too many people with teaching degrees, it suppresses wages.
That's speaking to a specific area of teaching and even then it notes there are still areas of shortages.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/linda-darlinghammond/the-answer-to-teacher-sho_b_12319698.html

Teacher shortages have been much in the news. After years of layoffs during the fiscal recession, an upturn in the economy has allowed districts to begin hiring again. The problem is that many districts cannot find qualified teachers to fill the new positions. Headlines like these have appeared across the county in 2016:

Help wanted: California school districts scramble to hire teachers

Crisis hits Oklahoma classrooms with teacher shortage, quality concerns

Florida teacher shortage labeled “critical”

AZ teacher exodus leaves more than 1K Valley classrooms vacant

Major teacher shortage causing big problems for 2016-2017 school year

Teacher shortages were the topic of a recent gubernatorial debate in Indiana, with the Democratic challenger blaming the policies of the former governor for current shortages, while his Republican opponent pointed to a national crisis as a source of Indiana’s woes. With more than 40 states, plus the District of Columbia, reporting severe shortages in special education, math, and science, and states reporting the hiring of substitutes and individuals without credentials by the thousands, a national shortage seems plausible. Last spring, Indiana Governor Pence (now a vice-presidential candidate) signed into law a major scholarship bill subsidizing the preparation of prospective teachers in an effort to boost supply.
 
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Jiggyfly

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The quality of the teachers is one topic closely followed by outcry of why they are not compensated as they should be. That is two parts of the same discussion. The passion ideology is fine but artists are passionate and musicians are passoniate as well but that doesn't automatically equate to being properly compensated. Teachers are in a field that unless it is a private system they are locked into a predetermined pay scale. No one is making a case that they shouldn't be better paid it's a matter of distribution of available funds. It is fine to be devoted and passionate but there is another issue in play so that can't just be ignored.
Artist?

Musicians?

Really?

Is that how you view teachers?

I am still waiting to hear on how do kids get taught since teachers are so irrelevent.

Are you advocating for private education for everyone?
 

Jiggyfly

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I guess it sort of depends where you live. For example I live at a Lake. Bartenders over the summer here can make a fortune. Obviously that doesn't apply everywhere. But I know a husband and wife teaching combo who both do that here and they do very well. I think most teachers get pretty good benefits as well but I can't speak nationwide to that. Obviously every state is different.
So how many bartending jobs are available?

I am not saying there are not jobs available but what about pricing in child care and other variables.

And how many of these jobs are going to be flexible and available every year.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Who gets 57,000?

There are only 20 states out 50 that average that and notice I said average.

http://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/

Average starting salary is 35,000.

A teacher gets about 1,000 a year bump in pay if any depending on school budgets.

The average salary in your state is 47,000 with a starting salary of 30,000.

To me it's not about a living wage it's about attracting the best and brightest yes you can live on these wages but can you keep and get the best teachers with these wages.
I took the average weekly pay you posted and multiplied it by 52 weeks.

Sounds to me like this is just as much an indictment of the process to get a teaching degree as anything.
 

Cowboysrock55

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So how many bartending jobs are available?

I am not saying there are not jobs available but what about pricing in child care and other variables.

And how many of these jobs are going to be flexible and available every year.
Well our economy is a bit of a disaster so you might be right about there not being many jobs available. Here it isn't a problem but that's because the tourist industry during the summer here is crazy. And doesn't every profession have to deal with child care? That isn't unique to teaching and most jobs don't offer 2 to 3 months of vacation for people to take off the entire summer.
 

Plan9Misfit

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So wait, $57,000.00 per year isn't a living wage anymore?
Not in Southern California, it isn't. Unless you're single, with no dependents, no student loans, no debt, and have no desire to own property. Then, you're good to go.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Not in Southern California, it isn't. Unless you're single, with no dependents, no student loans, no debt, and have no desire to own property. Then, you're good to go.
And in the other 90% of America it's a great salary. If you're a teacher and that's what they pay in Southern Cal, go somewhere else.
 

Plan9Misfit

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And in the other 90% of America it's a great salary. If you're a teacher and that's what they pay in Southern Cal, go somewhere else.
I'm not disagreeing, but there's a reason why the educational system is going to shit, and part of it is directly correlated to salaries.
 

L.T. Fan

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Artist?

Musicians?

Really?

Is that how you view teachers?

I am still waiting to hear on how do kids get taught since teachers are so irrelevent.

Are you advocating for private education for everyone?
You are so bias about any of my commentary you cant read it objectively. There wasn't any comparison about teachers it was a comparison of passionate People. The artist and musicians as an example are just as passoniate about their craft but in order to get compensated the have to do something to create an income. They have to work to make it happen and they go to an audience to make their case. Teachers on the other hand regardless of their passions are in a system that cannot exercise any descretion about compensation even though they are as compassionate about their profession as well.

You seemed to jump into your rabbit hole when you think there was any commentary about relevancy. My comments were simply about why teachers don't get paid what they are probably worth. Also that if money is the dominant issue for them then they will have to decide which road to take because the compensation to their profession is locked tight.

I am not advocating private education. I am suggesting that that is a possible avenue to stay in their field and be compensated more than the public system.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I'm not disagreeing, but there's a reason why the educational system is going to shit, and part of it is directly correlated to salaries.
So why not up the requirements to become a teacher then? There isn't a shortage of people with teaching degrees so I don't think just increasing the salary will make that pool better. Making the standards to become a teacher tougher will though. Which would shrink the number of potential teachers down and may lead to increased wages as a consequence. Simply raising salaries won't do anything for your quality of teacher though. Raising salaries is a solution for a shortage of teachers. It isn't the solution for improving the quality of teacher.

So are teachers just not doing a good job? Because that seems to be the sentiment I'm getting from what you're saying but I don't want to put words in your mouth.
 
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skidadl

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Private school teachers around here make even less with less benefits. They are mostly happy and enjoy their jobs.

Still, we see 25,000 seat football stadiums, so at least you have that.
 

BipolarFuk

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Private school teachers around here make even less with less benefits. They are mostly happy and enjoy their jobs.

Still, we see 25,000 seat football stadiums, so at least you have that.
You think Joe Dipshit Six Pack gives a shit about education?

NO!!! He has delusions of his average athlete kid playing in the LEAGUE!!!
 

Jiggyfly

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And in the other 90% of America it's a great salary. If you're a teacher and that's what they pay in Southern Cal, go somewhere else.
You are using 57,000 as the benchmark it's the average look at starting salaries and then yearly raises.

And if you go somewhere else what about the education system in California its not as simple as just move.
 

Jiggyfly

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You are so bias about any of my commentary you cant read it objectively. There wasn't any comparison about teachers it was a comparison of passionate People. The artist and musicians as an example are just as passoniate about their craft but in order to get compensated the have to do something to create an income. They have to work to make it happen and they go to an audience to make their case. Teachers on the other hand regardless of their passions are in a system that cannot exercise any descretion about compensation even though they are as compassionate about their profession as well.

You seemed to jump into your rabbit hole when you think there was any commentary about relevancy. My comments were simply about why teachers don't get paid what they are probably worth. Also that if money is the dominant issue for them then they will have to decide which road to take because the compensation to their profession is locked tight.

I am not advocating private education. I am suggesting that that is a possible avenue to stay in their field and be compensated more than the public system.
And none of that addresses what Booze was saying about getting and keeping good teachers.

You have yet to address that.

How do keep the american workforce properly trained for the future.
 

Jiggyfly

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So why not up the requirements to become a teacher then? There isn't a shortage of people with teaching degrees so I don't think just increasing the salary will make that pool better. Making the standards to become a teacher tougher will though. Which would shrink the number of potential teachers down and may lead to increased wages as a consequence. Simply raising salaries won't do anything for your quality of teacher though. Raising salaries is a solution for a shortage of teachers. It isn't the solution for improving the quality of teacher.

So are teachers just not doing a good job? Because that seems to be the sentiment I'm getting from what you're saying but I don't want to put words in your mouth.
There is a shortage of teachers I just posted the states who are in crises.

Here is another one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/america-has-a-teacher-shortage-and-a-new-study-says-its-getting-worse/2016/09/14/d5de1cee-79e8-11e6-beac-57a4a412e93a_story.html

The United States is facing its first major teacher shortage since the 1990s, one that could develop into a crisis for schools in many parts of the country, according to a new study by the Learning Policy Institute, an education think tank.

The shortfall is a result of increased demand for teachers as schools reinstate classes and programs axed during the Great Recession. It has been compounded by a dramatic decrease in the supply of new teachers entering the profession. Enrollment in teacher-preparation programs dropped from 691,000 in 2009 to 451,000 in 2014, a 35 percent decline, according to the study, “A Coming Crisis in Teaching? Teacher Supply, Demand and Shortages in the U.S.”

“Our analysis estimates that U.S. classrooms were short approximately 60,000 teachers last year,” Leib Sutcher, the study’s co-author, told reporters Tuesday ahead of the study’s release. “Unless we can shift these trends, annual teacher shortages could increase to over 100,000 teachers by 2018 and remain close to that level thereafter.”
 

skidadl

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You think Joe Dipshit Six Pack gives a shit about education?

NO!!! He has delusions of his average athlete kid playing in the LEAGUE!!!


Probably not but unfortunately that's the world we live in. After two years in public school (terrible education) my kids are struggling hard to keep up in a private school. Thankfully coaching there partially covers the tuition and and unknown donor paid for the rest or so wouldn't be there. I think public school ruined them a little. They are having to work hard to make it.
 

skidadl

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Example: I have two freshman that did AP algebra last year (aced it too) and had to retake algebra again this year because of so many things left out in the teaching.

My Jr son was able to run the school however he wanted because he was a star athlete in football, track, basketball and baseball. He never did homework and I never saw him study. He's taking algebra 2 again to learn the things he wasn't taught before.
 

L.T. Fan

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And none of that addresses what Booze was saying about getting and keeping good teachers.

You have yet to address that.

How do keep the american workforce properly trained for the future.
There is an abundance of teachers via the college graduation process. They just opt to not teach because of money. They go to the private sector where there is an opportunity to earn more than a teaching job. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that unless the public service payroll system is increased this will continue to happen. It also is perfectly clear that in order for this to happen tax revenues will have to increase or be reassessed to favor the teaching profession. This means increasing taxes on the public which isn't a popular political approach for some and will further burden an already overtaxed public. Or it will mean redistributing tax revenues by discontinuing other public assistance programs. That isn't popular either.

The remaining option is to simply leave the public service sector and enter the private market. This is a fact of life and booze knows this as well as anyone. It not a exercise of what is right or what is best, it is a system of taking the revenues within the system and distributing it where the public officials are allowed to.

This is what the economic structure in this country allows and it isn't going away. Politicians have made rhetorical campaign promises about how the will change everything but it never happens. That's the way it is and it isn't my opinion it's reality.
 
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