2018 Cowboys Draft Chatter Thread...

Cotton · Feb 6, 2018

Cowboysrock55 said:
Yeah I like what the Seahawks do. Baldwin is a Pro Bowl WR but he isn't a demanding number 1. They have a bunch of fast guys who can catch who back him up. Wilson is then basically able to go out there and throw to the open guy.

The problem is we have no receivers like that here.

Yep, no Divas.

Rev · Feb 6, 2018

GShock said:
This is going to sound insane (and is almost certainly wrong - what do I know), but I don't like Vea as a 1-tech in our scheme. If we are going to ask him to take on double-teams on 1st and 2nd down all game, and maybe get some interior pass rush in our 3-down lineman package, I think it's a poor fit. I think he excels in 1 on 1 situations. Ask him to blow up a center who he outweighs by 50 pounds and he's a stud. Use his initial quickness or run in pursuit? Sure. But spend a game getting ground down by an NFL center and guard? Get penetration only to get earholed by a NFL TE on a trap? Dig in on 3rd and short and stuff 2 lineman to blow the play up in the backfield?

I don't know that he's got that grit.

We already ask a smaller guy to do that.

jsmith6919 · Feb 6, 2018

ravidubey · Feb 7, 2018

GShock said:
This is going to sound insane (and is almost certainly wrong - what do I know), but I don't like Vea as a 1-tech in our scheme.

I don't know that he's got that grit.

It's this trapped line of thinking that always catches the Jones family. DT is not a splashy enough position for a 1st round pick, he'll get squelched, etc. If you're obsessed with the scheme and forget it's the players that make things happen, you've already hamstrung yourself.

It's wrong thinking.

This might be the most important piece of the defense, and it will be all the more impactful with a talented player in place of a journeyman. So what if there are no traditional stats to go along with the position? It forces the real football people to have to actually work for a living.

Bottom line, talent up front makes a huge impact.

Fletcher Cox is often if not always double teamed, yet he still makes plays and wrecks the offense's plans. Belichick made sure to account for Cox by double-teaming him in the Superbowl and Brady got the ball out quickly as normal.

Cox's talent helped the Eagles to ratchet up the pressure at the end of the 4th quarter and get the critical strip sack. Sure it wasn't Cox with the actual sack, but a lesser DT doesn't have the same drive to assist his teammates with the game on the line.

Well into his 30's Randy White would draw occasional triple teams. That's an insane commitment to one player by the offense. I'd love it for opposing teams to think that way about any of our players.

ravidubey · Feb 7, 2018

jsmith6919 said:

That gimp-footed dork was average as fuck. Can't believe he was a top ten pick. Terrible trade up by Dallas, but they were expecting Rocket Ismail.

Cowboysrock55 · Feb 7, 2018

ravidubey said:
It's this trapped line of thinking that always catches the Jones family. DT is not a splashy enough position for a 1st round pick, he'll get squelched, etc. If you're obsessed with the scheme and forget it's the players that make things happen, you've already hamstrung yourself.

It's wrong thinking.

The NFL sort of goes in cycles. It became a passing league and you can tell over the last few drafts the importance of NT's have sort of been knocked down as a result. Teams weren't that concerned with drafting RBs and in turn they weren't that concerned about drafting big run stuffing NT types. But we are seeing the resurgence of the RB in the NFL and in turn I think NT's will become more important again.

I mean if you go back over the last few drafts the bigger run stuffing DT's have dropped. Guys like Jernigan who we sure fire first round picks ended up going in the second round because they weren't quick twitch guys. But as we are seeing elite RB's become trendy again I think having a monster in the middle will become big again. I'd like to see us get on the front of that. The NFL right now is all about creating third and long situations. Which means you need to stuff the run on first and second down to create the third and long. If you give a team third and 4 or less it's an easy passing completion for a first down anymore. It's why you'd hear no complaint out of me if we drafted Vea or sign Star in free agency. I think those guys are important and they set stuff up for your pass rushers to make the money.

GShock · Feb 8, 2018

ravidubey said:
It's this trapped line of thinking that always catches the Jones family. DT is not a splashy enough position for a 1st round pick, he'll get squelched, etc. If you're obsessed with the scheme and forget it's the players that make things happen, you've already hamstrung yourself.

It's wrong thinking.

This might be the most important piece of the defense, and it will be all the more impactful with a talented player in place of a journeyman. So what if there are no traditional stats to go along with the position? It forces the real football people to have to actually work for a living.

Bottom line, talent up front makes a huge impact.

Fletcher Cox is often if not always double teamed, yet he still makes plays and wrecks the offense's plans. Belichick made sure to account for Cox by double-teaming him in the Superbowl and Brady got the ball out quickly as normal.

Cox's talent helped the Eagles to ratchet up the pressure at the end of the 4th quarter and get the critical strip sack. Sure it wasn't Cox with the actual sack, but a lesser DT doesn't have the same drive to assist his teammates with the game on the line.

Well into his 30's Randy White would draw occasional triple teams. That's an insane commitment to one player by the offense. I'd love it for opposing teams to think that way about any of our players.

My broader point (perhaps poorly made) is that i don't know if Vea has the Cox/White/(early) Wilfork will to do the dirty work for four quarters a game, 16-games a year.

Simpleton · Feb 8, 2018

I don't know whether or not Vea has that "drive", "grit", or whatever you want to call it, but I damn sure know that Payne does.

Cowboysrock55 · Feb 8, 2018

GShock said:
My broader point (perhaps poorly made) is that i don't know if Vea has the Cox/White/(early) Wilfork will to do the dirty work for four quarters a game, 16-games a year.

I don't think he has the play making ability of guys like Cox and White.

Wilfork is more like it. Man that guy was fat.

Cowboysrock55 · Feb 8, 2018

Simpleton said:
I don't know whether or not Vea has that "drive", "grit", or whatever you want to call it, but I damn sure know that Payne does.

I thought the knock on him was that he coasted most of the season and then flipped a switch when it came playoff time.

Watching Payne I find it really hard to judge. The guy basically did the old read and react two gap shit all day long. He stands up, stays center with the man across from him and then waits for the RB to get into his area, sheds and makes a tackle. The rare occasions he made it into the backfield were on plays where he went unblocked most of the time. And don't take that as a knock on the guy, it's what Alabama asked him to do. But it couldn't be any further from what we do on defense.

p1_ · Feb 14, 2018

ravidubey said:
That gimp-footed dork was average as fuck. Can't believe he was a top ten pick. Terrible trade up by Dallas, but they were expecting Rocket Ismail.

Jimmy Johnson special right there. I recall he was pretty damn stout in the middle of what became a #1 defense. Him, Chad and Tony C.

BipolarFuk · Feb 14, 2018

Maryland wasn't an HOFer or even great. But he was a good DT. No where near a #1 overall pick however.

boozeman · Feb 14, 2018

BipolarFan said:
Maryland wasn't an HOFer or even great. But he was a good DT. No where near a #1 overall pick however.

Back in those days though, signability was kind of a big deal. Maryland took a much cheaper deal. It worked out okay, he may not have been "worth it" but he had a solid NFL career and was a glue guy.

Angrymesscan · Feb 14, 2018

BipolarFan said:
Maryland wasn't an HOFer or even great. But he was a good DT. No where near a #1 overall pick however.

That was a terribly weak draft also, not many options. Rocket was the consensus #1... Not many drafts where that would happen.

ravidubey · Feb 15, 2018

p1_ said:
Jimmy Johnson special right there. I recall he was pretty damn stout in the middle of what became a #1 defense. Him, Chad and Tony C.

They’d have taken Rocket in a second had he not wigged out and bolted for Canada. Never seen anything like that.

Cowboysrock55 · Feb 15, 2018

ravidubey said:
They’d have taken Rocket in a second had he not wigged out and bolted for Canada. Never seen anything like that.

Such a different time in the league back then.

Cotton · Feb 16, 2018

So, who would be down for Senat in the 3-4 range?

Cowboysrock55 · Feb 16, 2018

Iamtdg said:
So, who would be down for Senat in the 3-4 range?

I would be. I think he is a really good and active 1 technique.

Hell I'm down with Poona Ford as well. And I think he could be available in the fifth/sixth round. I wouldn't mind addressing the spot in free agency as well though. Get a guy like Poona to be your backup NT. And go and sign someone like Poe, Logan, Lotulelei or Justin Ellis in free agency to be the veteran starter for a year or two.

Simpleton · Feb 16, 2018

There are alot of 1-T types in this class who can be had in the 2nd-4th range, so passing up a Payne in the 1st would make sense in that regard.

Someone like Harrison Phillips or Tim Settle in the 2nd, Derrick Nnadi in the 3rd, and Senat/BJ Hill/Poona Ford in the 3rd-4th range would be great. Love Nathan Shepherd too, I don't think he's necessarily a pure 1-T but he's a really good looking prospect.

Basically, I think we can get good value at the position outside of the 1st.

Cotton · Feb 16, 2018

The thing about Senat is he is quick. He gets off the ball fast and has some explosion. He moves very well for a 325 lb 1T. Maybe he has enough quick twitch for Marinelli to bite on him.

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