The Running Back position will doom us or not thread...

Carp

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The Steelers have not drafted a RB in the last two years. The Chargers hadn't taken a RB higher than the 6th round the two previous years, but did take Gordon this year. When they made the massive move up to get Matthews that did not work out well either.
 

Cotton

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DMN: Michael Irvin Why Philadelphia is the favorite in the NFC East, not the Cowboys

DMN: Michael Irvin Why Philadelphia is the favorite in the NFC East, not the Cowboys

Michael Irvin: Why Philadelphia is the favorite in the NFC East, not the Cowboys

Hall of Fame Dallas Cowboys wide receiver Michael Irvin recently joined WPEN-FM 97.5 in Philadelphia to talk all things football. Here are some of the highlights:

On if things are optimistic in Dallas about the upcoming Cowboys season:

Irvin: “Optimistic defensively, yes. You knew what the defense was last year and the defense did a very good job because of what DeMarco Murray offered offensively, and now when you lose — and I said this before — if you lose a DeMarco Murray it’s impossible to patch up the defense that won all season. The Cowboys have done a pretty good job with some of the guys that they’ve gone after and have acquired. Now here it is now, let me tell you, collecting talent is one thing, talent collaboration is another thing. So OK you’re collecting talent ... So understand we got to remind folk, collecting talent is one thing, collaborating talent is another. Can they collaborate? Can they play together? Can all of these guys that have issues come together like they did in Seattle and say, ‘Hey, everybody that came down on us’ — even though they put themselves in the situation they put themselves in, you can still turn it and use it, but you got to come together and use it.”

On additions of Randy Gregory, Byron Jones, La’el Collins and Greg Hardy, all of whom have a chip on their shoulder:

Irvin: “All of these guys come over, and a lot of those guys are over on the defensive side. If somebody has the ability to congregate that talent and then get close enough to each one of these guys and remind them that ‘everybody turned their back on you. Everybody turned their back on all of us, on all of us, they didn’t want any of us,’ and you try to rally around that, then you can get something done here. I always think it’s hard to put a team together in one offseason that goes out and plays great unless they have a root cause, a root cause, something within their spirit that they can all gravitate towards and play for it. And the Cowboys defense certainly has that.”

On the impact of Murray going from the Cowboys to the Eagles in the offseason:

Irvin: “What did I do to you, man? Why do you want to rub salt in that wound I have right there? Listen, I’m just, I’m telling y’all, now listen to me, I’m just getting over the depression of losing DeMarco Murray. I’m just coming out of the depression and I really thought, and felt like I was in a depress-ious state. I want to upchuck sometimes when I hear the thoughts of others as they speak on things around the league. ‘Oh you can put any running back behind that offensive line of the Dallas Cowboys.’ I say, ‘Oh really? Why they hand the ball to DeMarco Murray 392 times? Why did they stick anybody back there last year?’ Because they already knew that’s not the case.

"I’ve said this and I’ll say this now. Philadelphia upgraded immensely in that department. … LeSean McCoy is a bad man, he’s a great player and he beats defenses; he shakes you off, he fakes you out, he runs around you, he gets to the end, gets to the corners — and Chip Kelly, what’s he going to do? Chip Kelly puts, he spreads the ball out. He puts a lot of receivers in, so now you get a lot more defensive backs in as a defense. And now you’re playing against LeSean McCoy. You got fast defensive backs playing against a fast LeSean McCoy. LeSean McCoy is trying to get around the edges, but he’s running up against fast guys. I call LeSean McCoy a guy that beats defenses. I call DeMarco Murray a defense-beater. That’s a difference.

"He ain’t running around nobody. He’s running through you, and you got all of these defensive backs on the football field trying to tackle a defense-beater, not a guy that beats defenses — there’s a huge difference in that. DeMarco ain’t running around you. He’s running through you. Those guys in Seattle, they didn’t want to tackle DeMarco anymore. And now when that happens, you got to put everybody at the line of scrimmage to stop DeMarco, and now your passing game can do whatever it wills. All 31 teams, they’re playing chess while the Philadelphia Eagles gets to play checkers.”

On if Murray can do all the things McCoy did, going out in motion and catching passes:

Irvin: “Now that’s all great, but hear what we’re trying to do, understand what we’re trying to do and what a great running game does, what it did for Tony Romo last year and what it’s going to do for Sam Bradford this year. I understand that LeSean McCoy can go out and catch passes, and yes, he’s better than DeMarco Murray in that area. But now it’s still puts me in a guessing game on what the defense is running, what defense they’re in, who’s open, who’s not — that puts the onus back on the quarterback. Now, with DeMarco Murray in the game, I ain’t got to — I know what you’re playing. You got to put people up here to stop this run. We ain’t — we’re going to hand this ball off. We’re going to hand it off. The best way to win a championship and the best way for the least amount of mistakes offensively, is just turn around and handing the ball off. And that’s what you get to do with DeMarco Murray. You lessen the mistakes by the offensive unit, the whole offensive unit. Yes, it’s a great asset to have a guy like LeSean McCoy, who you can motion out, but it still puts me in a game of chess, trying to figure out what defense, what everybody is doing. With DeMarco Murray, I’m playing checkers.”

On the Cowboys running back situation:

Irvin: “Man the Cowboys should go sign (Chris Johnson), any running back that is out there. I don’t care any, especially a guy that has done it. I want to bring him out here. Because right now I’ve got to create such a competition at running back that each one of these brothers, they better run, run, run, run, run, because they don’t know when they’ll ever get another chance. I’ve got to find a guy that can give me something at this position and not fall into that bull that I can stick anybody back there and get success. I’ll tell you about Emmitt Smith. That offensive line, people talk about one of the greatest offensive liens in the world. I had that … the same offensive line (earlier) and we were garbage. We were garbage. And we lost every time until Emmitt Smith got behind that same offensive line.”

On the Cowboys now having to rely on Romo and the pass this season:

Irvin: “Let me tell you how that scares me, and it does in a big way, and I hope it doesn’t bring about an implosion inside here. How is the season going to start now? If you still had a DeMarco Murray, defenses are going to come in now, they’re going to stop the run, that way you can pass the ball away you want. You can throw the ball to Dez (Bryant) all you want. Now what’s going to happen? What’s going to happen is every defense that comes into Dallas is going to focus on stopping Dez Bryant and at the beginning of the year if Dez is not catching a lot of passes, Dez might think ‘oh this is a conspiracy to not get me my long-term contract.’ They just got rid of his best friend, the only guy that said, ‘man clam down,’ to him is DeMarco Murray. Now he’s gone. You see what I mean? It’s a bad precedent to start, when you start going outside paying people like the Greg Hardys and not paying the people inside like the DeMarco Murrays. I call it akin to what Philadelphia mistakenly fought so hard to not to pay DeSean Jackson … and brought all those other people in and had a lot of talent, an all-star team, but it fell apart."

On who the favorite is in the NFC East:

Irvin: "Philly is the favorite in the NFC East. You have to be able to, and it's a difficult thing, to separate my head from my heart. You cannot tell me and you' can't convince me that you can just stick anybody back there. And if they had drafted a Melvin Gordon, or drafted a (Todd) Gurley, then, I'd go, 'wait a minute, wait a minute, this might be something.' but with Darren McFadden, and he may have some great things going, but right now I would take Philly, and then Dallas in the NFC East."
 

L.T. Fan

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In no reality is Randle a lead NFL back. No way can he take 250-300 carries, 50+ receptions, and 300 pass blocks in this league.

It's unfair to ask that of him.

It just is.
That's an arbitrary statement. Noone knows what Randle can do. Give him the carries first then evaluate him.
 

L.T. Fan

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no one has seen enough of Randle in a primary role to know how he will produce.
 

Jiggyfly

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Bottom line though is they still spent 2nd and 3rd round picks on those backs. Outside of Gray, they were interchangeable... and good.

Gray was a Timmy Smith-like fluke, so I mostly ignore his numbers.

So to get that interchangeability, Dallas must invest in their RB's, not draft in the 5th round or sign has-been free agents as their #1 guy.

Steelers, Pats, Chargers... these teams get it. Draft them early, draft them often.
Man you just make shit up as you go along constantly.:lol
 

ravidubey

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That's an arbitrary statement. Noone knows what Randle can do. Give him the carries first then evaluate him.
Not arbitrary, but based on what I've seen. Too many times I saw him make his one ten yard run and then vanish. Projecting that over 5 times as many carries I can only imagine severe pain.

We'll know soon enough, but you rarely find long term starting RBs in the 5th round. This is where measurables matter, no matter how good the OL is.

I think it's a crime to waste a great OL with average skill players. A line that has the potential Dallas' does comes along very, very, very rarely.

In fact, I can't recall one being put together with this level of pedigree-- three 1st rounders and UDFAs who would have been 1st and 3rd rounders, a proven 4th rounder, and another 3rd rounder this year. Even the Oilers lines from way back weren't that rich.

The moment that group is put together the clock is ticking, you've only got a few years with all playing together.

One of those precious years will be spent blocking for very average RBs.
 

ravidubey

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Irvin is a non-believing in defense mo-fo.

He just can't get past Murray not being on the offense and is somehow empathizing with Murray and I guess feels dissed by Jerry Jones somehow .

Instead he himself is dissing Dallas by favoring Sam Bradford over Tony Romo, Nelson Agholor over Dez Bryant, and Captain Morgan over Jason Witten. That's just stupid.

And good as the Eagles' OL is, it ain't as good as Dallas's.

Lastly, the Eagles gained DeMarco Murray, but they also lost both LeSean McCoy and Jeremy Maclin.

With both Murray and Mathews running the ball, they will be a solid team, but they are not going to be consistent producers late in the year. Gimmick offenses just don't get it done over the long haul.
 

Jiggyfly

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How is that made up? Have these teams not drafted RB's in the early rounds multiple times? Check and see.
San Diego since 2005 drafted 8 2 in the first round no other before the 4th and most after the 4th.

NE since 2005 drafted 6, 1 in the 1st (2006) and a 2nd and 3rd the sane year no other before the 4th.

Pitt since 2005 drafted 9 1 in the 1st 6 after the 4th and the others a 2nd and 3rd.

Dallas since 2005 7 1 in the 1st 1 in the 3rd 2 in the 4th.

So tell me again how they do it early and often compared to Dallas.:lol
 

ravidubey

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Randle could have a solid career as a starter. There is no real evidence yet to say otherwise. If not him, then I think Williams could as well.
Dude, Williams was basically out of football last year. How is it he's now starting back material over many years?

Just imagine would could be if Dallas gets a superior talent running behind this line. Why be content to tie one hand behind our backs?
 

boozeman

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Mike is just butt hurt they didn't keep Murray, as he homered out for Murray big time last year.

I think he's wrong about Philly, I fail to see how they are hands down the favorite over Dallas. Their OL is old as shit and they are going to try to be a running team with Sam Bradford throwing to...well, uhh. Okay.

If we just had a real RB, I would be banging a gong and howling at the moon about our chances.

I do understand him though. This RB thing bites us in the ass big time if they got it wrong.
 

ravidubey

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If we just had a real RB, I would be banging a gong and howling at the moon about our chances
Just imagine what that could have been like. Teams would fear that. Now it's back to Romo doing it all, only with better blocking.
 

NoDak

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Dude, Williams was basically out of football last year. How is it he's now starting back material over many years?
No, he wasn't 'basically out of football last year'. That would imply he wasn't doing anything. You know... if he was actually OUT of football. He wasn't playing, but he was practicing with the team every week.
 

VA Cowboy

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Just imagine would could be if Dallas gets a superior talent running behind this line. Why be content to tie one hand behind our backs?
It's how Jerry shows he's 'committed' to winning. Like when he hired Gailey, Campo, Wade, Garrett...
 

data

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I think the long awaited emergence of the 2-TE offense will make up for the quality gap between Murray and randle/mcf/Williams.

Cuz, it's happening this year, right?
 

GShock

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I think the long awaited emergence of the 2-TE offense will make up for the quality gap between Murray and randle/mcf/Williams.

Cuz, it's happening this year, right?
:lol

Let's not ignore the implications of a less reliable running game on the playcalling. Murray's performance let us stay devoted to the run. We get less production out of that committee, and the temptation to go all Romo all the time returns.

And we know how that movie ends.
 

GShock

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For the record, I like Randle as the big play threat and Williams as the "dirty yards" back.
For whatever reason, the organization does not seem to like Williams. He is almost always the last guy mentioned when they talk about the position.
 

p1_

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For whatever reason, the organization does not seem to like Williams. He is almost always the last guy mentioned when they talk about the position.
I imagine that reflects his ranking in the scheme at present. You can't prop someone
who occupies the practice squad. By definition he is the lowest on the totem pole. That doesn't mean
He doesn't have it, it's just where he is til he proves otherwise .
 

hstour

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Not arbitrary, but based on what I've seen. Too many times I saw him make his one ten yard run and then vanish. Projecting that over 5 times as many carries I can only imagine severe pain.

We'll know soon enough, but you rarely find long term starting RBs in the 5th round. This is where measurables matter, no matter how good the OL is.

I think it's a crime to waste a great OL with average skill players. A line that has the potential Dallas' does comes along very, very, very rarely.

In fact, I can't recall one being put together with this level of pedigree-- three 1st rounders and UDFAs who would have been 1st and 3rd rounders, a proven 4th rounder, and another 3rd rounder this year. Even the Oilers lines from way back weren't that rich.

The moment that group is put together the clock is ticking, you've only got a few years with all playing together.

One of those precious years will be spent blocking for very average RBs.
And that is why eye-witness testimony is the most unreliable form of testimony. People don't recognize they aren't seeing what they think they are seeing. It's why eye trick brain teasers work.

Only one game from last year would fit your description, the Indy game.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16013/joseph-randle

Two would fit the description from 2013, home vs Wash and @Det. But his two other games that year that he was on the field were respectable. And it was his rookie year.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/16013/year/2013/joseph-randle

But let's not forget this will only be his 3rd year. I'm not saying he's going to be great, just that with his limited touches, no one knows yet.
 
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