2016 POTUS Election Thread

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L.T. Fan

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No, his charity is not "his personal assets". Because it's a charity. Also the money donated to his charity was almost exclusively not from Trump.
Then why is it (his ) charity? Does the charity belong to someone else?
 

townsend

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Then why is it (his ) charity? Does the charity belong to someone else?
L.T., why are you acting obtuse? He has control of the charity, he started it. But he's not allowed to use it as his piggy bank. Otherwise a person could just start a charity and use it as a tax haven and use the donations for money laundering. Which is precisely what he's doing, which is precisely why he won't release his tax returns.
 
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townsend

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To be fair the Clinton's foundation did all kinds of shady stuff. Things like this which are actually scary:

In a separate case, ABC News reports that a top Clinton Foundation donor named Rajiv Fernando was placed on State’s International Security Advisory Board. Fernando appeared significantly less qualified than many of his colleagues, and was appointed at the behest of the secretary’s office. Internal emails show that State staff first sought to cover for Clinton, and then Fernando resigned two days after ABC’s inquiries.

All Trump did was shift charitable money from one charity to another.
I'm not saying what Hillary's done with the Clinton foundation hasn't been shady. I think it's pretty obvious that it has. The difference is Hillary's always managed to put up smoke without a fire, and people have been chasing that smoke for 20 years without coming up with anything.

Trump using charity funds to pay off personal debts is something that proves he's using his charity as an extension of his personal wealth. That he brazenly rushes through ethical concerns that Hillary tiptoes around.

Now you could say. "Hey, handing out sensitive positions in an alleged pay to play situation is a lot more damaging than having a fake charity." But the issue is that Hillary has had near presidential power, and the extent of her abuse fell narrowly within the law. Trump has never had a fraction of that power and blatantly defies every rule he's supposed to follow. How on earth do you trust a man who is Putin like in his audacity, and disregard for the law, with the office of the presidency?
 

L.T. Fan

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L.T., why are you acting obtuse? He has control of the charity, he started it. But he's not allowed to use it as his piggy bank. Otherwise a person could just start a charity and use it as a tax haven and use the donations for money laundering. Which is precisely what he's doing, which is precisely why he won't release his tax returns.
I am not being obtuse. It is a legitimate question. Charities, Trusts, etc are set up in unique ways at the wishes of the founders for various reasons. It isn't an automatic violation for someone to utilize these vehicles for various reasons. One would have to be aware of how the charities in question are structured. I don't know, do you? You can't assume there is a violation simply because it is a charity.
 

L.T. Fan

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L.T., why are you acting obtuse? He has control of the charity, he started it. But he's not allowed to use it as his piggy bank. Otherwise a person could just start a charity and use it as a tax haven and use the donations for money laundering. Which is precisely what he's doing, which is precisely why he won't release his tax returns.
I am saying you cannot question the legality without knowing the structure of the entity.
 

townsend

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I am saying you cannot question the legality without knowing the structure of the entity.
Um , yes I can. The nation's laws on running a charity aren't subject to the structure of a charity. If Trump is involved in self dealing from a charity, the structure of the company is irrelevant. Because he's engaged in a clear conflict of interest as well as violating restrictions on the operation of charities put forward by the IRS.
 

L.T. Fan

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Um , yes I can. The nation's laws on running a charity aren't subject to the structure of a charity. If Trump is involved in self dealing from a charity, the structure of the company is irrelevant. Because he's engaged in a clear conflict of interest as well as violating restrictions on the operation of charities put forward by the IRS.
But you don't know how it is structured so you can't know whether it in violation. It may well be but until IRS or DOJ say there is a violation of law then it conjecture by both of us to make pronouncements. Remember, there are ways of structuring things that can circumvent the law but not be illegal. That is why they call them loopholes. Further if there is self dealing then it will need to be pointed out by the prosecutors.
 

Jiggyfly

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I am not being obtuse. It is a legitimate question. Charities, Trusts, etc are set up in unique ways at the wishes of the founders for various reasons. It isn't an automatic violation for someone to utilize these vehicles for various reasons. One would have to be aware of how the charities in question are structured. I don't know, do you? You can't assume there is a violation simply because it is a charity.
It's all right here if you care to actually know the answer to this question.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-used-258000-from-his-charity-to-settle-legal-problems/2016/09/20/adc88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html?postshare=2341474381688708&tid=ss_tw

But as usual you ignore the facts put before you.

How can you ask what somebody else knows when you clearly have no clue yourself.

Any non profit is under these rules.
Rosemary E. Fei, a lawyer in San Francisco who advises nonprofit groups, said both cases* clearly fit the definition of self-dealing.

“Yes, Trump pledged as part of the settlement to make a payment to a charity, and yes, the foundation is writing a check to a charity,” Fei said. “But the obligation was Trump’s. And you can’t have a charitable foundation paying off Trump’s personal obligations. That would be classic self-dealing.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Self-Dealing

Self-Dealing
The conduct of a trustee, an attorney, or other fiduciary that consists of taking advantage of his or her position in a transaction and acting for his or her own interests rather than for the interests of the beneficiaries of the trust or the interests of his or her clients.
 

L.T. Fan

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It's all right here if you care to actually know the answer to this question.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-used-258000-from-his-charity-to-settle-legal-problems/2016/09/20/adc88f9c-7d11-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html?postshare=2341474381688708&tid=ss_tw

But as usual you ignore the facts put before you.

How can you ask what somebody else knows when you clearly have no clue yourself.

Any non profit is under these rules.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Self-Dealing

Self-Dealing
The conduct of a trustee, an attorney, or other fiduciary that consists of taking advantage of his or her position in a transaction and acting for his or her own interests rather than for the interests of the beneficiaries of the trust or the interests of his or her clients.
When internal revenue makes a determination I am sure you will let everyone know. In the meantime they are allegations not facts. Do you mind waiting for the actual findings? Then we can all talk about them.
 

Kbrown

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Wait, I can create a charity and structure it in a way that allows me to use the money for whatever I want? And all this time I've been working for a living, like some sucker?
 

L.T. Fan

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When internal revenue makes a determination I am sure you will let everyone know. In the meantime they are allegations not facts. Do you mind waiting for the actual findings? Then we can all talk about them.
By the way there was no criminal investigation of Hillary nor could the administration wire anything to Iran so cool.your jets before you spout off again. If Trump is guilty then all of us will be informed.
 

L.T. Fan

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Wait, I can create a charity and structure it in a way that allows me to use the money for whatever I want? And all this time I've been working for a living, like some sucker?
I don't know the answer to that. Talk to an attorney who has some expertise.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Trump using charity funds to pay off personal debts is something that proves he's using his charity as an extension of his personal wealth.
Actually fines waged against a corporation aren't personal debts. A personal debt would be his charity paying off his mortgage. His charity giving money to another charity for the sake of another corporation or some form of a corporation is not actually a personal debt at all.

Additionally I'm not sure that a charity donating to another charity is actually inappropriate.
 

townsend

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Actually fines waged against a corporation aren't personal debts. A personal debt would be his charity paying off his mortgage. His charity giving money to another charity for the sake of another corporation or some form of a corporation is not actually a personal debt at all.
He owns the corporation, anything that benefits his corporation goes into his pocket. He's allowed to pay himself from his own company at any time, which makes it a (taxation friendly) extension of his wealth. Which is fine, it's perfectly legal to treat a corporation that way, just not a charity, because a charity enjoys tax exemptions, and take charitable donations.

Do you have any doubt that we'd find more egregious violations of Trump actually released his taxes?
 

L.T. Fan

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He owns the corporation, anything that benefits his corporation goes into his pocket. He's allowed to pay himself from his own company at any time, which makes it a (taxation friendly) extension of his wealth. Which is fine, it's perfectly legal to treat a corporation that way, just not a charity, because a charity enjoys tax exemptions, and take charitable donations.

Do you have any doubt that we'd find more egregious violations of Trump actually released his taxes?
Wait for the book to come out. :art
 

Jiggyfly

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When internal revenue makes a determination I am sure you will let everyone know. In the meantime they are allegations not facts. Do you mind waiting for the actual findings? Then we can all talk about them.
Same as it ever was.

Ignore, Ignore, Ignore.
 

Jiggyfly

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By the way there was no criminal investigation of Hillary nor could the administration wire anything to Iran so cool.your jets before you spout off again. If Trump is guilty then all of us will be informed.
Are you posting to yourself now.:unsure
 

Jiggyfly

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Actually fines waged against a corporation aren't personal debts. A personal debt would be his charity paying off his mortgage. His charity giving money to another charity for the sake of another corporation or some form of a corporation is not actually a personal debt at all.

Additionally I'm not sure that a charity donating to another charity is actually inappropriate.
Did you read the article?

These were cases that were negotiated because of actions deemed wrongful by Trump.

This is not just random charitable givings.
 
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