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Thread: 2018 Cowboys Draft Chatter Thread...

  1. #461
    One-armed Knife Sharpener Iamtdg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortsbest View Post
    I can see Irving, Vea, Taco and Lawrence being so dominant we could be reminded of Doomsday. And it would make the young DBs sooooo much better.
    And, the LBers.
    2016 DCC LOTY Fantasy Football Champion

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  3. #462
    Senior Member Cowboysrock55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fortsbest View Post
    I can see Irving, Vea, Taco and Lawrence being so dominant we could be reminded of Doomsday. And it would make the young DBs sooooo much better.
    Yeah I love that D-line. Not enough to trade up for Vea but I certainly think it would be bad ass if he fell to 19.

  4. #463
    Senior Member ravidubey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post
    The Ravens defense was never built around Ngata.
    It was rebuilt around him and he was the driving force behind their late 2000ís resurgence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post
    Same for Casey Hampton.

    It's why neither defense has panicked to replace either guy. It's why Ngata is bouncing around the league. Just like Poe and every other highly drafted NT in recent history.
    There you go misrepresentation again. Ngataís bouncing around the league because heís 34 years old. Hampton played 13 years in Pittsburgh before leaving.

    The Steelers last played in the Superbowl with Hampton playing his third.

    Chiefs went from 9th to 28th in defense when they lost Poe. Then they end up trading their big time CB anyways. They look like idiots.

    You donít lose players like that and not feel the impact.

    Teams feel pressure to retain their pass rushers so much they forget what makes the rest of the defense work.

  5. #464
    Senior Member Cowboysrock55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravidubey View Post
    Teams feel pressure to retain their pass rushers so much they forget what makes the rest of the defense work.
    They feel that pressure because they are more important and harder to find.

    Also I love how you claim I misrepresented something and then talk about Ngata being 34. The dude left the Ravens 3 going 4 seasons ago. He was 31 years old when he left. And the elite Ravens defense were built around Suggs and Reed.

    You take it too far with your size stuff. A stud NT would be great but it's not the most important piece. It's certainly not worth trading multiple picks for. Lotulelei gone. Danny Shelton traded. Poe gone. Shit even Snacks Harrison was allowed to leave the Jets. Happens all the time, because NTs aren't franchise players.

  6. #465
    Senior Member Couchcoach's Avatar
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    Read an interesting article a couple of weeks ago. Not sure, but I think it was Blogging the Boys.
    Regarding Vea, the writer was talking about how teams get excited about DT's until draft day. And when it comes time to take that first round pick to the podium they just can't bring themselves to use it on a DT. I can see the point here but it can be a foolish move.
    Hoping that's the case with Vea, and we take advantage of the opportunity.

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  8. #466
    Senior Member ravidubey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cowboysrock55 View Post
    Shit even Snacks Harrison was allowed to leave the Jets. Happens all the time, because NTs aren't franchise players.
    Yet the defenses they join immediately become elite or at least loads better.

    I know Harrison is why the reason the Giants went from being a joke in 2015 to stingy bastids in 2016. All it takes is one guy.

    Losing Poe dropped KC 16 spots from 9th to 25th in defense.

    Shelton was traded because Cleveland is and has been the dumbest organization maybe in all of sports for some time now.

    And the smartest team grabbed him, you know the one that never has a great pass rusher butís always in the Superbowl.

    The fallacy is that pass rushers by themselves make a defense great.

    Hell our own team has had *fantastic* pass rushers yet perennially borderline sucks on defense. Look at last year!

    Weíve fielded average defenses for decades, and this is the only piece thatís been missing that whole time!

  9. #467
    Senior Member p1_'s Avatar
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    I think Vea is gone by pick 19.
    Free at last, free at last. Now lets get back to the future, Marty.

  10. #468
    Senior Member Cowboysrock55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravidubey View Post
    Yet the defenses they join immediately become elite or at least loads better.

    I know Harrison is why the reason the Giants went from being a joke in 2015 to stingy bastids in 2016. All it takes is one guy.

    Losing Poe dropped KC 16 spots from 9th to 25th in defense.
    You know Kansas City's rush defense got better once Poe left? I mean not much different (Went from 4.4 ypc against to 4.3) but your concept that it had some massive impact on them seems a bit far fetched.

    But you're missing the point. I agree with you that a NT can have an impact on a defense. It's just not what a defense is built around. Look at all the top defenses from last year? How many of them sport a top draft pick on their NT? Linval Joseph was a second round pick, and he is on his second team. Abry Jones was an undrafted free agent. Domata Peko was a fourth round pick and is on his second team. Tim Jernigan was a second round pick and is on his second team. Javon Hargrave was a third round pick who started as a rookie.

    So those are the NT's from the top 5 defenses last year. Dallas's defense ranked 8th last year and we had Collins a third round pick start multiple games there (He was a 16 game starter last year). So the point remains, you don't build a defense around a NT. No one is out there using an elite pick on a NT and then building from there. I'm all for Vea. But trading away premium resources to move up to draft him is pure foolishness.

  11. #469
    Senior Member deadrise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravidubey View Post
    Well yeah, thatís why Iím willing to trade up and get him. We have extra picks.

    He creates an imbalance you donít see against most 4-3 frontsó you can build a defense around this guy for the better part of a decade.

    Damn well worth a 3rd and maybe more.
    I love it when people throw around phrases like the "better part of a decade" or the "next 10 years." I recall when Tyron Smith was drafted everyone said we would be "set at left tackle for the next 10 years."

    Nothing is set for anything close to 10 years in today's NFL. Salary caps, free agency, injuries -- four or five years is more like the most optimistic horizon for any hot shit draft pick.

  12. #470
    Senior Member ravidubey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadrise View Post
    I love it when people throw around phrases like the "better part of a decade" or the "next 10 years." I recall when Tyron Smith was drafted everyone said we would be "set at left tackle for the next 10 years."

    Nothing is set for anything close to 10 years in today's NFL. Salary caps, free agency, injuries -- four or five years is more like the most optimistic horizon for any hot shit draft pick.
    I whole-heartedly agree, which is why I said better part of a decade. Ngata was a Raven for 9 seasons and Hampton a Steeler his entire 12 year career. I have no illusions, but also consider this iwill be Tyronís 8th season, which is damned ďcloseĒ to a decade.

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