2016 POTUS Election Thread

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Jiggyfly

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Yeah. It has that superior elitist ring. It's never enough for some to disagree and provide the reasons. They feel compelled to point out their superiority on top of that.
Yeah that's exactly what Geng did.:picard

You keep saying this even when it has nothing to do with the person is actually saying.

Very Trumpish.
 

Jiggyfly

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I had never actually seen his "Doctors Note":lol



Donald Trump tests positive for every medical ailment. All of them. Supposedly, that’s what his doctor says—or at least, that’s what the Trump campaign portrays him as saying.

On Monday, Trump opined that Hillary Clinton did not have the mental or physical stamina to be president. This was playing off of a conspiracy theory that has been pushed in the conservative media and by Trump supporters for weeks. As I wrote earlier this week, Fox News’s Sean Hannity and others even attempted to claim Clinton suffered from seizures, a vile misrepresentation that harms people who have epilepsy, as I do.

Still, the Trump acolytes have not dropped their lying campaign about Clinton’s health, and their argument that people with epilepsy are unfit for political office. They are demanding she produce all of her medical records. Since these lies are harming people with seizures, let’s talk about the health of both candidates and the relevant information released by their campaigns.


On July 28, 2015, the Clinton campaign released a typical medical letter from an internist, whom she has seen since 2001—Lisa Bardack, director of internal medicine, Mount Sinai Health System at CareMount Medical. The letter is a typical medical history, and begins with the usual summary of a full physical, calling her a “healthy 67-year-old female.” It lists medical issues and the findings of testing. The tests, it says, were negative, meaning they showed no problems. To use the medical terminology, it is an unremarkable document.

On December 4, 2015, the Trump campaign released…something.

It purports to be a medical letter, but it is one of the most ridiculous documents ever to emerge in any political campaign. First, the letterhead is in the same font as the letter, which appears to have been created using Microsoft Word. The signature from the doctor is several inches past the signature line—the result you might get if the document had been signed as a blank and filled in later. The letterhead includes a Gmail address—something doctors tell me is extremely unusual, since doctors do not want patients contacting them directly by email as a substitute for scheduling an appointment.

There is also a website listed, but if you follow the URL (haroldbornsteinmd.com), sometimes it takes you to cdn.freefarcy.com, a blank page that asks if you want to upload an update to a Flash program onto your computer (the domain name, freefarcy.com, is still for sale. No, I can’t explain that.) If you decline, it does so anyway and, based on the response of the security system on my computer, the “program” on the doctor’s supposed website is a virus. (Other times it takes you to a generic medical website. No, I can't explain that either.)

Then, there is the doctor who allegedly signed this document. His name is Harold N. Bornstein, and he is a gastroenterologist. This kind of physician is a specialist who treats the digestive tract. This is not an internist, who is trained specifically in providing full histories and physicals of patients. The letter signed by Dr. Bornstein, who did not return an email from Newsweek seeking comment, says that he has treated Trump since 1980. However, it mentions no history of the gastrointestinal problem that led the Republican candidate for president to seek out his help. In fact, the letter says Trump has had no significant medical problems. So why has he been seeing a gastroenterologist for over 35 years?

Unlike the Clinton letter, it does not contain a full medical history for Trump. The letter also has problems with sentence structure and major typographical errors, such as the opening line, “To Whom My Concern.” Most amusing, it says that his medical examination of Trump has “only positive results.” In medical terms, if the test is positive, it confirms the existence of disease. Is this doctor saying Trump has every medical ailment that could be found in examination? Does he not know the meaning of the word? Or, as I suspect, was the letter written by someone in the Trump campaign?

Anyone reading the letter can make a good guess about who that person might be. It says results were “extraordinarily excellent.” (Not a medical term.) It says, “His physical strength and stamina are extraordinary.” (Again, not a medical term.) Then, in the most hilarious, Trump-esque line of all, it says, “If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest person ever elected to the presidency.” In other words, this letter purports to show that a doctor has assessed the health of 43 people he has never examined, including the four who are still alive.

Now, if conservative conspiracy theorists want to play a “the candidate could have health problems” game, let’s do that. The letter from the Trump campaign mentions nothing about family history, as any normal letter assessing someone’s medical condition would. (Clinton’s does.) Family history is critical in understanding possible diseases that may emerge, particularly those with a genetic link. Trump’s father, Fred Trump, died from complications of late-onset Alzheimer’s disease. That condition, which is the most common form of Alzheimer’s, emerges in people in their mid-60s or later. Trump is 70.

There is a genetic component to the disease. Risk increases when a person has a particular type of apolipoprotein E (APOE) gene on the 19th chromosome. The type of APOE gene a person has is testable. Has Dr. Bornstein, the gastroenterologist, tested for it? If not, why not? Is that why Trump has avoided seeing an internist, since they would conduct such a test? Such a test might reveal that Trump is unfit for office since dementia, unlike epilepsy, could damage a president’s ability to think coherently.

Moreover, people have been suggesting that they may have seen symptoms of Alzheimer’s in Trump’s behavior. Yes, I am using Trump argument style of “people say,” but I’m going to help you identify the people. Type “Trump and Alzheimer’s” into Google and lots of articles and online comments pop up pointing out behaviors of Trump’s that are consistent with Alzheimer’s: meandering speech, poor self-control, not properly responding to questions that are asked, erratic behavior.

See? I can generate conspiracy theories too. Please understand, I’m not saying Trump has Alzheimer’s. I’m just showing how easy it is to take a few facts and line them up to play the “I’m only asking questions” game. So if conservatives want to keep pushing their “Clinton’s health” conspiracy theory, even though they have a full assessment of her medical status from her doctor, then I’m going to keep demanding that Trump release a letter from a real internist that has real medical tests and results for Alzheimer’s.

I’m not going to let kids with epilepsy be told they can’t be president of the United States or anything else they want simply so a bunch of liars can score political points. The case that there may be medical problems with Trump, given the nonsense of his medical letter and his poor family history, is much stronger than that against Clinton.

It’s time for Trump and the conservative media to drop this line of attack, one that harms innocent people. Or get ready to answer questions that “people are asking” about what horrible things Trump is hiding about his health.
 

L.T. Fan

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Generally speaking, Physicians cannot release anything about a patient's medical condition to anyone except another physician and then only by consent of the patient. This holds true for medical records even to the patients family. Exceptions are usually circumstances due to legal proceedings. I doubt Trump had his doctor write anything and it doesn't even sound like it came from a medical professional.
 

L.T. Fan

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But Hillary isn't an ideological choice. There are very few liberal purists that are satisfied with her. She's a definitively moderate choice, when compared to Sanders, Johnson, Stein, Cruz, or Trump.

That's why she can actually talk about policy in detail, unlike Trump who's all bigoted flash and no substance. Hillary's competent Trump isn't. If their resume hasn't already proved that, their general election campaigns have.

Trump supporters are fringe voters caught up in emotions. 100% of them, because as flawed as Hillary is, and she's deeply flawed, there's never been a major party candidate so superior to their other major party rival.

People that paint this as a match between similar candidates (like Obama and Romney) are clearly failing to understand how completely and thoroughly Trump has disqualified himself. After the judge Curiel thing, after the Khab thing, after ideological tests for immigrants, after his thorough display of the understanding of foreign policy. Comparing Trump to Hillary is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who's dumb enough to not have tuned you out yet.
Trump supporters for the most part are fed up with the status quo political process and are willing to risk their vote to avoid another corruptible political candidate who will extend bad policy and compound other processes by loading the supreme court with more runaway legal opinions. That's the long and the short of it.
 

townsend

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Trump supporters for the most part are fed up with the status quo political process and are willing to risk their vote to avoid another corruptible political candidate who will extend bad policy and compound other processes by loading the supreme court with more runaway legal opinions. That's the long and the short of it.
But it's insane to vote for a man standing trial for a RICO case as an alternative to "corruptible" politicians. That's why Trump supporters have earned a lot of well deserved contempt. No evaluation of Trump's ethics as a business man points to him being in any way less corrupt than a typical politician.

He's already used political influences on known corrupt asshole Ken Paxton to save him from getting prosecuted in TX. There's some talk about his campaign manager taking money from Russian interests. Most importantly, unlike every other major presidential candidate, he won't release his tax returns which means he's earned less trust than every typical politician who's willing to be more transparent.
 

L.T. Fan

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But it's insane to vote for a man standing trial for a RICO case as an alternative to "corruptible" politicians. That's why Trump supporters have earned a lot of well deserved contempt. No evaluation of Trump's ethics as a business man points to him being in any way less corrupt than a typical politician.

He's already used political influences on known corrupt asshole Ken Paxton to save him from getting prosecuted in TX. There's some talk about his campaign manager taking money from Russian interests. Most importantly, unlike every other major presidential candidate, he won't release his tax returns which means he's earned less trust than every typical politician who's willing to be more transparent.
Sounds like his corruption qualifies him to be as good as Hillary's. He may be more qualified to be President than once thought. :art
 

Jiggyfly

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Generally speaking, Physicians cannot release anything about a patient's medical condition to anyone except another physician and then only by consent of the patient. This holds true for medical records even to the patients family. Exceptions are usually circumstances due to legal proceedings. I doubt Trump had his doctor write anything and it doesn't even sound like it came from a medical professional.
What?

This is the document Trump himself released as a statement to his health.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/14/donald-trump-releases-medical-report-calling-his-health-extraordinary/

Donald Trump Releases Medical Report Calling His Health ‘Extraordinary’


Updated, 11:02 p.m. | Donald J. Trump has released a letter from his personal physician attesting that his health is “extraordinary.”

The letter, gushing in tone and signed by Dr. Harold N. Bornstein of Lenox Hill Hospital in Manhattan, was four paragraphs long and provided few specific laboratory test results. The letter made a sweeping declaration in a tone oddly similar to how Mr. Trump talks about himself.

“If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency,” Dr. Bornstein wrote in the final paragraph of the letter, which was dated Dec. 4 but not released until Monday.

The note also came 11 days after Mr. Trump, 69 and a leading candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, vowed on Twitter to release a “full medical report” about his physical health and fitness to serve as president, which he said would “show perfection.” His pledge came after a Politico report pointed out his penchant for fatty foods, his lack of routine workouts and, until now, his refusal to release a medical report.
But I am glad you realise how ridiculous this letter is and Trump for releasing it.
 

L.T. Fan

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What?

This is the document Trump himself released as a statement to his health.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/12/14/donald-trump-releases-medical-report-calling-his-health-extraordinary/



But I am glad you realise how ridiculous this letter is and Trump for releasing it.
Why does this letter work you up so? Even if it's ridiculous what is there that paints a picture to you that it is completely over the top? It is someone's attempt at declaring Trump to be physically fit. I don't see the scandal.
 

Jiggyfly

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Why does this letter work you up so? Even if it's ridiculous what is there that paints a picture to you that it is completely over the top? It is someone's attempt at declaring Trump to be physically fit. I don't see the scandal.
You are the only one worked up.

I just think it is a joke and by your initial response you agree.
 

L.T. Fan

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You are the only one worked up.

I just think it is a joke and by your initial response you agree.
It worked you up or you wouldn't have posted it in the first place. It's your kid. You don't see me posting all that stuff on anyone.
 

Kbrown

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Why does this letter work you up so? Even if it's ridiculous what is there that paints a picture to you that it is completely over the top? It is someone's attempt at declaring Trump to be physically fit. I don't see the scandal.
You don't find a medical doctor declaring his patient unequivocally the most healthy Presidential candidate ever over the top. Okay. Apparently this doctor also treated Grover Cleveland.

I notice that your new debate style is that everything is no big deal and people are silly for discussing what they don't like. How tiresome.

Let's take it back several months. I don't remember what, as a USAF vet, your take is on Trump's assertion that John McCain is not a war hero because heroes don't get captured.

I'll give bonus points if you can find a way around repeating that Trump isn't your first choice.
 

L.T. Fan

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You don't find a medical doctor declaring his patient unequivocally the most healthy Presidential candidate ever over the top. Okay. Apparently this doctor also treated Grover Cleveland.

I notice that your new debate style is that everything is no big deal and people are silly for discussing what they don't like. How tiresome.

Let's take it back several months. I don't remember what, as a USAF vet, your take is on Trump's assertion that John McCain is not a war hero because heroes don't get captured.

I'll give bonus points if you can find a way around repeating that Trump isn't your first choice.
So are you saying the doctor that purportedly wrote this letter is bonkers or are you saying it should not have been written?

As to McCain he is a solid war hero and what Trump said about him was completely out of line. I will not defend anyone who asserts differently.

About Trump being a default choice, that is the way it has sifted out because at the onset I stated if he was the only choice left I would choose him over Clinton. There is nothing to backtrack on. As it happened that has come to fruition and I still feel the same. Is there a anything you see that is inconsistent about that? The difference is that there are probably millions other that feel the same way and some may not declare themselves but I feel very strongly about Clinton not becoming the next president and have made my position clear from the git go. Trump should shut his mouth because he is killing his chances but he probably will not.
 

BipolarFuk

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So Trump has once again "shaken up" his campaign. :lol

Manafort is demoted and two batshits are hired to take his place who will let "Trump be Trump". :rofl
 

Kbrown

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So are you saying the doctor that purportedly wrote this letter is bonkers or are you saying it should not have been written?

As to McCain he is a solid war hero and what Trump said about him was completely out of line. I will not defend anyone who asserts differently.

About Trump being a default choice, that is the way it has sifted out because at the onset I stated if he was the only choice left I would choose him over Clinton. There is nothing to backtrack on. As it happened that has come to fruition and I still feel the same. Is there a anything you see that is inconsistent about that? The difference is that there are probably millions other that feel the same way and some may not declare themselves but I feel very strongly about Clinton not becoming the next president and have made my position clear from the git go. Trump should shut his mouth because he is killing his chances but he probably will not.
I think the most likely scenario is that Trump or somebody in his campaign wrote the note and tacked some random gastroenterologist buddy's name to it. This "doctor" thinks an examination having positive results is a good thing, for God's sake. That was a joke on The Office years ago:

Thing is, he's counting on his supporters to buy into it and defend him because BENGHAZIWHITEWATEREMAILS or whatever. I don't think all his supporters are stupid, but he's making stupid people out of those who are otherwise intelligent, and it makes the rest of us feel like we are taking crazy pills.
 

townsend

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It really feels like the parties have flipped roles. Democrats used to be the emotional party. Back when Clinton ran against Bush he won on the strength of his emotional connection with the base, even though his resume was nothing compared to Bush sr. Bush was a 4 year president, 8 year VP, CIA director, congressman, RNC chair, and a WW2 vet. Clinton was a governor of a backwater state.

Now Hillary is the Bush, the preselected establishment successor to the more ideologically pure 2 term ultra charismatic president, and Trump is man appealing to the emotions of his constituents. It used to be democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Now it's democrats fall in line, republicans get possessed by anger.
 

Genghis Khan

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I think the most likely scenario is that Trump or somebody in his campaign wrote the note and tacked some random gastroenterologist buddy's name to it. This "doctor" thinks an examination having positive results is a good thing, for God's sake. That was a joke on The Office years ago:

Thing is, he's counting on his supporters to buy into it and defend him because BENGHAZIWHITEWATEREMAILS or whatever. I don't think all his supporters are stupid, but he's making stupid people out of those who are otherwise intelligent, and it makes the rest of us feel like we are taking crazy pills.

Well said.
 

Rev

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Can we just fast forward through this nightmare?
 

L.T. Fan

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Can we just fast forward through this nightmare?
Fine by me but odds are that more articles will make their way to the thread. Dry up that activity and it will be a breeze. Remember though it is a few months until election so I'm betting the the snipping with articles will continue.
 

Rev

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Fine by me but odds are that more articles will make their way to the thread. Dry up that activity and it will be a breeze. Remember though it is a few months until election so I'm betting the the snipping with articles will continue.
Wasn't necessarily talking about the debate. The whole situation itself. Maybe we can get somebody that isn't an embarrassment someday.
 
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