BipolarFuk
Demoted
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2013
- Messages
- 11,464
They also stopped OWR until it obviously went downhill and I'm 99% sure there are still some of them out there from F&F although I can't prove that because you wouldn't hear about it in the MSM.These weapons had chips in them as well the ATF supervisors chose not to arrest until it was too late.
Most of the buyers ended up prosecuted.
I personally don't watch Faux News. I did and I also railed against The Patriot Act, which of course, has been renewed by the clown currently in office even though he said it would go bye-bye. He also said deficit spending was unpatriotic but once elected, it went on steroids. I supported Iraqi Freedom until I realized it used poor strategy. My nephew fought there from the beginning and did several tours. I could spent half an hour posting clips of the BS that the idiot from Hyde Park in Chicago spewed while running but I won't bother because I only stop here every couple of days now. It's out there though.
Are you a poor Vietnamese boy they've only taught enough English to be repulsive?What do your surroundings look like? I'll call amnesty international.Sometimes I think you are a mongoloid that was dropped on it's waterhead one too many times. Most times, actually.
I really have no issue with anything you said.They also stopped OWR until it obviously went downhill and I'm 99% sure there are still some of them out there from F&F although I can't prove that because you wouldn't hear about it in the MSM.
Regardless, they were different programs under different presidents and the fact remains that the only deaths occurred under F&F because it was poorly run.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2012/06/26/the-5-biggest-differences-between-operation-fast-and-furious-and-operation-wide-receiver/
Here is the complete congressional report if you notice it was primarily run under regional supervision the same supervision as OWR.Bill Newell was a major promoter of the strategy in Fast and Furious. Though he had
been the Special Agent in Charge in Phoenix for several years, he somehow failed to understand
the basic legal standards needed for interdicting firearms and questioning potential suspects.
According to testimony of the other ATF agents, Bill Newell did not have significant experience
as a case agent or working street operations. His inexperience at the field agent level may have
been a contributing factor to his ignorance of legal thresholds. Instructing his agents to abide by
incorrect standards was a costly mistake that prevented interrogation, disruption, and possible
arrest of straw purchasers.
In the ATF organizational hierarchy, Newell reported to Deputy Assistant Director
(“DAD”) William McMahon, whose supervisory responsibilities included the field offices along
the Southwestern border. McMahon served as the main link between the Phoenix Field Division
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and ATF Headquarters, and therefore should have played an important role in relaying
information both up and down the chain of command. McMahon knew that no operational
safeguards were in place to prevent the firearms from traveling to Mexico. However, he did not
make any effort to stop the flow of guns, believing that it was not his job to interfere in Bill
Newell’s investigations.
Assistant Director Mark Chait and his superior, Deputy Director Hoover, had several
opportunities to put an end to the operation but failed to do so. Hoover knew that Newell had
employed risky tactics in the past as SAC yet failed to monitor him closely. Either Hoover did
not ask the right questions or simply turned a blind eye to the unavoidable reality that reckless
gunwalking tactics were being used again in Fast and Furious.
Though he had a distinguished background, knew little of the operational details of Fast
and Furious, and was committed to full cooperation with Congress, ultimately Acting Director
Kenneth Melson, as head of ATF, still bears a significant measure of responsibility for failing to
ensure that ATF headquarters personnel adequately supervised the Phoenix Field Division.
Correct. People who rail against Fox news but don't recognize that most of the other outlets are subtly just as biased are sadly going through life completely blind.There is nothing outlandish about Fox news. They have a conservative agenda but other networks have their agendas as well. It's a matter of what your political cup of tea is. It's humorous to hear someone say they don't watch a given media then pronounce how bad they are. That approach to enlightenment is a contradiction in terms.
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I disagree with this, MSNBC is as bad as Fox News, but there are very few news outlets outside of North Korea that are so one sided, and so content to pander. Fox News is a fucking blight.Correct. People who rail against Fox news but don't recognize that most of the other outlets are subtly just as biased are sadly going through life completely blind.
The disheartening thing to me as a conservative is people who rail against Fox news do so under the guise of complaining that it's biased. THEY ARE ALL BIASED YOU GOD DAMN MORONS. Their real complaint isn't that it's biased, it's that it's conservative.
Not everyone wants to think like you, you thought-suppressing Nazis.
So you don't watch Fox News, but you think it's comparable to other news outlets that you also don't watch? No wonder you're content to insult people, rather than generate any kind of thoughtful commentary. Which means you're probably their target demographic. Not that liberals can't be insulting. That's why MSNBC exists, to cater to all the liberals who like to think everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot. It's not a political thing, it's a temperament thing.You, Townsend, are exactly what I'm talking about.
You suspect I'm a current viewer? You're fucking dead wrong. I don't watch Tv news. Not Fox or anything else. I loathe all of it.
God forbid someone challenge your narrow, closed mind with reality.
You have an opinion of course and are entitled to both believe and express it but you are not content to do that.So you don't watch Fox News, but you think it's comparable to other news outlets that you also don't watch? No wonder you're content to insult people, rather than generate any kind of thoughtful commentary. Which means you're probably their target demographic. Not that liberals can't be insulting. That's why MSNBC exists, to cater to all the liberals who like to think everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot. It's not a political thing, it's a temperament thing.
I'm a fiscal conservative who's argued for gun rights, for libertarianism, against libertarianism, for feminism, against feminism, contributed to Ron Paul, Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders. I've voted in every damn election since 2012, never straight ticket. I've had to go as far as look up candidates on Facebook to see whether or not I should vote for them (because lower ticket candidates have very little available information.)
I'm probably voting for Gary Johnson this year (and voted for him in 2012), but would have picked Hillary in a second if Trump had a chance, and would have voted for Romney, Ryan, Rand Paul, and possibly Kasich over her. I like Sanders but am frankly relieved at where his revolution ended because I think he would have trouble adjusting to the demands of the presidency.
My views aren't that narrow. But Fox News is garbage, and perhaps the fact that you don't watch it is why you don't know that. Being open minded doesn't mean you have to take the middle of the road on every issue, it means taking a thoughtful approach to every topic, and I have seen plenty of Fox News and have seen it eat at the intelligence of people I respect. I know a good bit about cancer too, and I don't feel like it's open minded to take a centrist view on the merits or cancer either.
I'd say that it's a fair criticism that my contempt of Fox News bleeds over into judgements of those who defend it. I think it's comparable to a person who's had friends and family who struggle with alcoholism might have a less than even handed view of the alcohol industry.You have an opinion of course and are entitled to both believe and express it but you are not content to do that.
You always take to the next level by making a subjective pronouncement that not only are you correct but any different point of view cannot possibly be correct. The post I am responding to is a good example of what I am saying. Folks would take you more seriously if you just gave your opinion and the reasons why.
Riding the issue to the point of feeling it necessary to proclaim your virtues and then denigrate an opposing view is over the top.
Doesn't have a thing to do with what I said.I'd say that it's a fair criticism that my contempt of Fox News bleeds over into judgements of those who defend it. I think it's comparable to a person who's had friends and family who struggle with alcoholism might have a less than even handed view of the alcohol industry.
Until Glenn Beck left Fox News and my father was less incentivized to leave it on the background, my father became rabid. In my generation this is not an isolated incident, lonely parents left alone with Fox News too long, frequently get so angry that they're incapable of pleasant conversations anymore. This happened a lot to friends of mine who had joined the military, they'd talk to their father over the phone or over leave one day, and that person would be unrecognizable.
That's a scary thing, especially if you have parents of advancing years, when they indulge in something so vitriolic that they become a completely different person from the one you grew up with.
So much as if someone might defend binge drinking as a harmless activity (and it can be if it isn't a habit), for someone who's seen how that addiction can destroy a person, I have a strong, righteous hatred for it.
Key word subtly as biased.Correct. People who rail against Fox news but don't recognize that most of the other outlets are subtly just as biased are sadly going through life completely blind.
The disheartening thing to me as a conservative is people who rail against Fox news do so under the guise of complaining that it's biased. THEY ARE ALL BIASED YOU GOD DAMN MORONS. Their real complaint isn't that it's biased, it's that it's conservative.
Not everyone wants to think like you, you thought-suppressing Nazis.
My grandmother did the same thing and she is black.I'd say that it's a fair criticism that my contempt of Fox News bleeds over into judgements of those who defend it. I think it's comparable to a person who's had friends and family who struggle with alcoholism might have a less than even handed view of the alcohol industry.
Until Glenn Beck left Fox News and my father was less incentivized to leave it on the background, my father became rabid. In my generation this is not an isolated incident, lonely parents left alone with Fox News too long, frequently get so angry that they're incapable of pleasant conversations anymore. This happened a lot to friends of mine who had joined the military, they'd talk to their father over the phone or over leave one day, and that person would be unrecognizable.
That's a scary thing, especially if you have parents of advancing years, when they indulge in something so vitriolic that they become a completely different person from the one you grew up with.
So much as if someone might defend binge drinking as a harmless activity (and it can be if it isn't a habit), for someone who's seen how that addiction can destroy a person, I have a strong, righteous hatred for it.
All I'm saying is that OWR and F&F are not one and the same and they were implemented differently. One involved at least some form of tracking and one was just throwing **** against the wall and hoping something stuck.I really have no issue with anything you said.
F&F was extremely flawed but is was piggybacking OWR which was led by the same guy which also let guns get across the border, as I said this was not some idea implemented by Obama.
Here are the main players all of these people were in the same jobs during OWR except for the acting cheif of the ATF.
Here is the complete congressional report if you notice it was primarily run under regional supervision the same supervision as OWR.
http://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/7-31-12-FF-Part-I-FINAL-REPORT.pdf
You just bought yourself a ticket to eternal damnation with that little tantrum. Hope it was worth it.Tim Tebow is going to speak at the RNC.
Ffffffuuuuuuuu