The Gun Control Debate Thread

L.T. Fan

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Anyone in favor of beat cops carrying more high-powered weapons?
I could support it. Lots of crazy stuff goes on in the streets especially in some of the large Metro areas.
 

townsend

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I could support it. Lots of crazy stuff goes on in the streets especially in some of the large Metro areas.
I could be wrong but I haven't heard many instances of police being outgunned. Frankly I don't believe police are well trained enough on their current arsenal. Seems like spending that gun money on tactical training would be far more valuable.
 

Kbrown

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Most departments allow patrol officers the choice of keeping an AR-15 or a 12 gauge shotgun in their cruisers, from what I understand.
 

L.T. Fan

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I could be wrong but I haven't heard many instances of police being outgunned. Frankly I don't believe police are well trained enough on their current arsenal. Seems like spending that gun money on tactical training would be far more valuable.
I have heard of instances where police have been out gunned by automated weapons.
 

fortsbest

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Actually this would be the preference of everyone in LE, but sadly, most organizations are way understaffed. In Ft. Worth we are about 200-300 officers short of where we should be staffed based on FBI and PERF studies. The pool of good talent is dwindling.

Long guns aren't as predominant as you might think though. It's rare that they are required and you will still find shotguns are the preferred longer weapon of choice. I have both and as long as I know there are a few officers city wide working that have the ARs, I'd rather have my shotgun with me.
 

Genghis Khan

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Some pro-gun people like to claim that more guns will help curb mass shootings. Why do we even need to this justification? Even if guns did contribute to more killings, so be it. Fact is, Bill of Rights grants us right to bear arms.

Concealed carry is also peculiar. Is this somehow supposed to make things safer?
I doubt more guns would make much difference in mitigating gun violence. I feel much the same about less or even no guns.

But I don't think those things actually matter in the gun debate. It's an individual liberty issue and significantly curtailing gun ownership rights is unacceptably invasive to our rights as citizens.

I think it goes beyond even just that it's guaranteed by the second amendment. We have the ability to change that if we want. But we shouldn't. It's too important a right.

If we want to curtail violent crimes, we need to work on making society more inclusive and less alienating, give people more opportunities to make something of their lives and feel fulfilled, and give more attention to solving mental health issues.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I doubt more guns would make much difference in mitigating gun violence. I feel much the same about less or even no guns.
No but I would feel a hell of a lot safer if I was carrying a gun while a mass shooting was going on. But then again, I don't carry a firearm and most people don't which is why it would probably have minimal impact.
 

UncleMilti

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No but I would feel a hell of a lot safer if I was carrying a gun while a mass shooting was going on. But then again, I don't carry a firearm and most people don't which is why it would probably have minimal impact.
I carry mine 95% of the time. And you'd be surprised how many people with CCP's actually carry full time or 75% of the time. In NC and SC the rate is something like 70% of CCP holders carry when going to dinner, the mall, or a bar.

I'd rather die going out popping 15 rounds towards a dipshit like the Orlando killer than huddle in a bathroom stall calling my family to tell them goodbye.

And that in no way means I'm not sympathetic to what happened in Orlando, it was a terrible heinous act of hatred...but thats the truth on my end.

Its really sad the mainstream media does its best not to report the number of lives SAVED by a CCP holder. You have to go to the "crazy" gun loving sites (rolling eyes) to read of the heroics of CCP holders who actually saved lives because they had a gun on them.

Hell in SC there have been 3 instances CCP holders saved multiple lives at a damn Waffle House alone. 3 damn WAFFLE HOUSE attempted robberies in SC, and in one instance a patron called 911 under the table and the damn cops didn't arrive till 13 minutes after the CCP holder had shot the bad guy. WTF..
 
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jsmith6919

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I carry mine 95% of the time. And you'd be surprised how many people with CCP's actually carry full time or 75% of the time. In NC and SC the rate is something like 70% of CCP holders carry when going to dinner, the mall, or a bar.

I'd rather die going out popping 15 rounds towards a dipshit like the Orlando killer than huddle in a bathroom stall calling my family to tell them goodbye.

And that in no way means I'm not sympathetic to what happened in Orlando, it was a terrible heinous act of hatred...but thats the truth on my end.

Its really sad the mainstream media does its best not to report the number of lives SAVED by a CCP holder. You have to go to the "crazy" gun loving sites (rolling eyes) to read of the heroics of CCP holders who actually saved lives because they had a gun on them.

Hell in SC there have been 3 instances CCP holders saved multiple lives at a damn Waffle House alone. 3 damn WAFFLE HOUSE attempted robberies in SC, and in one instance a patron called 911 under the table and the damn cops didn't arrive till 13 minutes after the CCP holder had shot the bad guy. WTF..
There was one here in Dallas just last week.
http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article89449782.html
 

Kbrown

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Just down the road from me, a guy tried to rob a man who was sitting in line at McDs with his four-year-old. This was a couple blocks away from where I used to work in my in-laws' insurance agency. Broad daylight, right on a busy little highway that runs through this area.

Anyway, the guy in the truck put a few rounds in the attempted robber, and he and his son were unscathed. I can only hope the dead guy's buddies went to the funeral and think twice about their chosen careers.
 

Angrymesscan

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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 73,505 nonfatal injuries (23.23 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,636 deaths due to "Injury by firearms",[6] or 10.6 deaths per 100,000 people...

We can all agree that taking all guns out of circulation cannot happen, but more guns would increase the number of accidental deaths and injuries, and even more tragic than losing a loved one at the hands of some nutcase is losing a loved one and you or another loved one carrying with that guilt. For this reason alone I can't advocate more guns. Add to it that I believe many would not go through with the suicide (or not be as successful at least) or some of the homicides where escalation from disputes that may not have ended in death had a gun not been readily available, I don't think more guns would equate to less deaths...
 

UncleMilti

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According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, in 2013, firearms were used in 73,505 nonfatal injuries (23.23 per 100,000 U.S. citizens) [2] and 11,208 deaths by homicide (3.5 per 100,000),[3] 21,175 by suicide with a firearm,[4] 505 deaths due to accidental discharge of a firearm,[4] and 281 deaths due to firearms-use with "undetermined intent"[5] for a total of 33,636 deaths due to "Injury by firearms",[6] or 10.6 deaths per 100,000 people...

We can all agree that taking all guns out of circulation cannot happen, but more guns would increase the number of accidental deaths and injuries, and even more tragic than losing a loved one at the hands of some nutcase is losing a loved one and you or another loved one carrying with that guilt. For this reason alone I can't advocate more guns. Add to it that I believe many would not go through with the suicide (or not be as successful at least) or some of the homicides where escalation from disputes that may not have ended in death had a gun not been readily available, I don't think more guns would equate to less deaths...
I respect your opinion.

I will simply say I can find hundreds of statistics that seemingly show why "something" should be reduced or controlled because people are hurt, injured or killed by that certain "something" every year.

Lets face it..people for the most part are fucking stupid. I'd have to say 50% of shootings are by people who simply lack the basic common sense to even handle a gun. The same can be said about driving and owning an automobile. Yet, there's not really any restrictions on driving or owning a car.

I know its not a direct relationship, but for the most part its an accurate comparison.
 

townsend

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I respect your opinion.

I will simply say I can find hundreds of statistics that seemingly show why "something" should be reduced or controlled because people are hurt, injured or killed by that certain "something" every year.

Lets face it..people for the most part are fucking stupid. I'd have to say 50% of shootings are by people who simply lack the basic common sense to even handle a gun. The same can be said about driving and owning an automobile. Yet, there's not really any restrictions on driving or owning a car.

I know its not a direct relationship, but for the most part its an accurate comparison.
Honestly, I wish we required a driver's license worth of training for guns. I love responsible gun owners, even though I oppose campus carry, I think there are many places where responsible gun owners could be helpful. But I think we see too many people purchase guns for "protection" like it's an insurance policy and not a tool that can do as much harm as good in the hands of a novice. This seems especially true of women. It seems like every few months I here of some lady getting shot by her toddler, or that lady who tried to shoot someone stealing from a Home Depot (and hit an uninvolved party).
 

Genghis Khan

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I don't think it's right, ethical, moral, or desirable to restrict person A's liberties because person B can't handle those same liberties or is otherwise a fucking moron.
 

Angrymesscan

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I respect your opinion.

I will simply say I can find hundreds of statistics that seemingly show why "something" should be reduced or controlled because people are hurt, injured or killed by that certain "something" every year.

Lets face it..people for the most part are fucking stupid. I'd have to say 50% of shootings are by people who simply lack the basic common sense to even handle a gun. The same can be said about driving and owning an automobile. Yet, there's not really any restrictions on driving or owning a car.

I know its not a direct relationship, but for the most part its an accurate comparison.
I completely agree with you, people for the most part are fucking idiots. That's exactly why I am against more guns out there, odds are they will end up in a morons hands. I'm all for natural selection, but giving a gun to every idiot seems a bit extreme.
 

Cotton

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I don't think it's right, ethical, moral, or desirable to restrict person A's liberties because person B can't handle those same liberties or is otherwise a fucking moron.
Pretty much.
 

UncleMilti

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Honestly, I wish we required a driver's license worth of training for guns. I love responsible gun owners, even though I oppose campus carry, I think there are many places where responsible gun owners could be helpful. But I think we see too many people purchase guns for "protection" like it's an insurance policy and not a tool that can do as much harm as good in the hands of a novice. This seems especially true of women. It seems like every few months I here of some lady getting shot by her toddler, or that lady who tried to shoot someone stealing from a Home Depot (and hit an uninvolved party).
I agree with you 100%.

If I remember correctly, the lady at Home Depot was a CC permit holder. It goes back to my point...here's a lady who went thru the course and still didn't have enough common sense, nor absorbed the CC training that clearly outlined shooting at someone if your life isn't in immediate danger is against the law. Stealing something from Home Depot didn't put anyone's life in danger. I mean, really..how stupid are people?

It is scary sometimes.
 

townsend

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I agree with you 100%.

If I remember correctly, the lady at Home Depot was a CC permit holder. It goes back to my point...here's a lady who went thru the course and still didn't have enough common sense, nor absorbed the CC training that clearly outlined shooting at someone if your life isn't in immediate danger is against the law. Stealing something from Home Depot didn't put anyone's life in danger. I mean, really..how stupid are people?

It is scary sometimes.
I've only had about 6 weeks worth of combat related training in a 7 year military career. (And most of that I did not excel at, since I do not have great aim) but like even now I remember the deadly force triangle "ability, opportunity, and intent". Seems like that should be the bedrock of all weapons training.
 

L.T. Fan

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:pitchfork:pitchfork:pitchfork:pitchfork:pitchforkI suspect that 95% of the population would say everyone else is stupid and moronic.
 

Genghis Khan

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so what're we talking about here? If we could start from scratch with gun control, who doesn't get a gun (age, level of criminal record, naturalized citizen/working visa/green card) and what procedures (certifications, training, paperwork, registration, etc) necessary to get one?
I'm referring to the notion that gun control mitigates things like suicide and accidental shootings. My rights shouldn't be curtailed based on my neighbor's misuse of that right.
 
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