Scruggs: Mike Lombardi Rips Jason Garrett's Coaching Ability

boozeman

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I think it's Linehan, it's Marinelli, it's Stephen, it's McClay.

It's a cohesive long term strategy, where a consistent philosophy has been implemented (for the first time in 20 years) that players, position coaches, coordinators, and head coach all figure into.

To me the risk of moving Garrett isn't losing Garrett, it's upsetting that (say it with me) continuity that actually makes this team feel professionally constructed. If we could pull off a Mike Tomlin style transplant, where the new HC could slide into the position and build on what's already here, that's great. But I don't want Switzer, I don't want Gailey, I don't want Wade Phillips, I don't want another Jason Garrett. I don't want to force another franchise QB to lose his prime while some new asshole learns on the job.
Then you get Garrett for a long time. He is in the family portrait.
 

townsend

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Then you get Garrett for a long time. He is in the family portrait.
Not my favorite plan, but not the worst outcome either. Gary Kubiak can earn a ring if the stars align, that's all I expect from Garrett.
 

Carp

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Oh for fuck sakes...Garrett gets no credit for Dak, but he is part of the problem that we have not developed a QB since his arrival. Nevermind the fact he had no one to develop, but let's not inject reason into this dumb fucking take.
 

Smitty

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Garrett's work with the backup QB situation also brought us Brad Johnson and Brooks Bollinger. Then Jones spent big money for Orton and got screwed.


The idea to have Weeden as the backup was a colossal mistake. That was specifically illustrated by the panic move to trade for Cassel who cost us a pretty decent draft pick to rent for less than a year.

Just more proof that Garrett needs talent to make it and he cannot bridge the gap between average and good like the better coaches do.
.... the same as 90% of the rest of the coaches in the league.
 

Smitty

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And, what you're ignoring is that the key denominator to that upward trend is Linehan, not Garrett.
I'm not ignoring it, I am disagreeing that it has as much weight as you say it does.
 

Smitty

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People crediting Jason for coaching and prepping up a fourth round rookie in Dak... bitch please. In Jerry's words, we hit a glory hole with Dak. He came in day one and was simply exceptional. First preseason game on, he was lights out. He had a miracle season that was unprecedented in NFL history.

It isn't as if he came in with typical rookie QB - let alone mid to late round rookie QB - limitations and our coaching staff had to be all creative and cater the team to win around him. He literally stepped in day one and performed like a well seasoned vet. Seriously... he was a rookie competing for the league MVP award.

You can't argue that the coaching staff made Dak Dak, when their history with literally EVERY back up QB since, what, 2007(?) has been garbage - save a semi-respectable performance or two from Orton & Kitna years ago.

Listen... for real... had the Raiders not saved us from ourselves, we would have taken Connor Cook in the fourth round and last season absolutely would've been another 4-6 win season.

Trying to credit Garrett for Dak is like crediting a welfare recipient who hits the Powerball as being a solid financial planner.
This is just 100% wrong and absolutely naive.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I will say this. If another team could pluck any coach from our roster I'd be more concerned about losing Linehan than I would be Garrett. I certainly give more credit to Linehan for this offense than Garrett.
 

UncleMilti

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People crediting Jason for coaching and prepping up a fourth round rookie in Dak... bitch please. In Jerry's words, we hit a glory hole with Dak. He came in day one and was simply exceptional. First preseason game on, he was lights out. He had a miracle season that was unprecedented in NFL history.

It isn't as if he came in with typical rookie QB - let alone mid to late round rookie QB - limitations and our coaching staff had to be all creative and cater the team to win around him. He literally stepped in day one and performed like a well seasoned vet. Seriously... he was a rookie competing for the league MVP award.

You can't argue that the coaching staff made Dak Dak, when their history with literally EVERY back up QB since, what, 2007(?) has been garbage - save a semi-respectable performance or two from Orton & Kitna years ago.

Listen... for real... had the Raiders not saved us from ourselves, we would have taken Connor Cook in the fourth round and last season absolutely would've been another 4-6 win season.

Trying to credit Garrett for Dak is like crediting a welfare recipient who hits the Powerball as being a solid financial planner.
Yeah, funny how all the Garrett nuthuggers never talk about that.

You could give Garrett a small pass if he was just another coach that came up thru the ranks...but the motherfucker played QB in the NFL for Christ sakes, and backed up Aikman who is arguably one of the GOAT at QB. I mean seriously, does the guy not know a QB when he sees one?

The backup situation over the years and the Connor Cook fiasco says NO.
 

Cowboysrock55

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You could give Garrett a small pass if he was just another coach that came up thru the ranks...but the motherfucker played QB in the NFL for Christ sakes, and backed up Aikman who is arguably one of the GOAT at QB. I mean seriously, does the guy not know a QB when he sees one?

The backup situation over the years and the Connor Cook fiasco says NO.
Umm probably because no one has any idea how Connor Cook would have done here? It's literally a hypothetical with an imaginary answer. Shit before we all saw Dak in Dallas no one thought he could win 6 games here.
 

UncleMilti

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Umm probably because no one has any idea how Connor Cook would have done here? It's literally a hypothetical with an imaginary answer. Shit before we all saw Dak in Dallas no one thought he could win 6 games here.
LOL..come on man....I didn't even list all the other QB's that have absolutely flatlined here. Do we need to write them out? Take Conner out of the equation and my question still stands. Is Garrett able to sniff out a good QB?

Midswat is right, the Raiders saved us a major fuck up and Dak fell into our laps because of Linehan.
 

Cowboysrock55

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LOL..come on man....I didn't even list all the other QB's that have absolutely flatlined here. Do we need to write them out? Take Conner out of the equation and my question still stands. Is Garrett able to sniff out a good QB?

Midswat is right, the Raiders saved us a major fuck up and Dak fell into our laps because of Linehan.
And how many of those Qbs who flatlined here went on to have successful careers? When you're talking about other teams busts and throw a ways your success rate is going to suck. I guess you can blame Garrett for not getting better QBs in here but that's sort of on the player personnel department isn't it?
 

townsend

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And how many of those Qbs who flatlined here went on to have successful careers? When you're talking about other teams busts and throw a ways your success rate is going to suck. I guess you can blame Garrett for not getting better QBs in here but that's sort of on the player personnel department isn't it?
Orton did manage to go 7-5 in Buffalo. Although there's a big difference between playing for a team with 2014 Buffalo's defense, and closing out 2013 with that horror show Monte Kiffin defense.

It's the same thing with Brandon Weeden winning a game in Houston. It makes sense because Houston was a team built to win with a shitty QB.

Garrett's entire team falls apart without a stud QB, because it's a team that lives or dies on its ability to produce offensively, that's where all the talent is. Marinelli uses smoke and mirrors to make a group of JAGs keep us in the game, but without a powerful offense on the other side, it falls apart.
 

NoDak

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Umm probably because no one has any idea how Connor Cook would have done here? It's literally a hypothetical with an imaginary answer. Shit before we all saw Dak in Dallas no one thought he could win 6 games here.
Correct.

But, you know, grrrrrrr....
 

Smitty

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Orton did manage to go 7-5 in Buffalo. Although there's a big difference between playing for a team with 2014 Buffalo's defense, and closing out 2013 with that horror show Monte Kiffin defense.

It's the same thing with Brandon Weeden winning a game in Houston. It makes sense because Houston was a team built to win with a shitty QB.

Garrett's entire team falls apart without a stud QB, because it's a team that lives or dies on its ability to produce offensively, that's where all the talent is. Marinelli uses smoke and mirrors to make a group of JAGs keep us in the game, but without a powerful offense on the other side, it falls apart.
No, you have it all wrong. Weeden winning a game is just proof that Garrett can't coach! He should have immediately revamped the team to be like the Texans, all so he could prove to a couple blowhards on a message board that he can win an extra game or two and go 5-11 instead of 4-12.
 

townsend

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No, you have it all wrong. Weeden winning a game is just proof that Garrett can't coach! He should have immediately revamped the team to be like the Texans, all so he could prove to a couple blowhards on a message board that he can win an extra game or two and go 5-11 instead of 4-12.
To be fair, when Weeden was in the lineup that extra win was a lot more consequential. We were 2-0 when Weeden took over, and in control of the NFC east. But Weeden didn't have the best situation here, his lead wideout was Williams, his running back was Randle. He even managed to deliver against New Orleans, before Drew Brees pounded us in overtime.

But I think if we had kept Weeden at starter, and had McFadden starting from the beginning, we still might have made the playoffs in that shithole division. (Although I'm glad we didn't since we probably would have had a totally different draft.)

I do think Garrett deserves criticism for the lineup decisions (although I'm sure Jerry is responsible for a lot of it) that almost certainly cost us games in 2015, he's not blameless. But there's a lot more to suss out, and Garrett was dealt a really sorry hand, and he should have been expected to fail. In 2014, no one was shocked after Arizona started losing after Carson Palmer went down. Everyone expects a team to lose after their QB goes down. Same with Oakland this year.

You know me, I hate simplified narratives.
 

midswat

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People crediting Jason for coaching and prepping up a fourth round rookie in Dak... bitch please. In Jerry's words, we hit a glory hole with Dak. He came in day one and was simply exceptional. First preseason game on, he was lights out. He had a miracle season that was unprecedented in NFL history.

It isn't as if he came in with typical rookie QB - let alone mid to late round rookie QB - limitations and our coaching staff had to be all creative and cater the team to win around him. He literally stepped in day one and performed like a well seasoned vet. Seriously... he was a rookie competing for the league MVP award.

You can't argue that the coaching staff made Dak Dak, when their history with literally EVERY back up QB since, what, 2007(?) has been garbage - save a semi-respectable performance or two from Orton & Kitna years ago.

Listen... for real... had the Raiders not saved us from ourselves, we would have taken Connor Cook in the fourth round and last season absolutely would've been another 4-6 win season.

Trying to credit Garrett for Dak is like crediting a welfare recipient who hits the Powerball as being a solid financial planner.
This is just 100% wrong and absolutely naive.
With all due respect, we're at an impasse. The fact that I believe with entirety that what I posted is 100% true, and you suggest it's 100% wrong just indicates we ought to just agree to disagree.

In a few years though, when Garrett is relieved of his duties and Dallas still hasn't been to, let alone won, another Super Bowl - probably won't even make it past the divisional round - I promise not to send you a "I told you so" PM. I just hope the day he is canned comes sooner rather than later. I'd hate for another group of supremely talented players to waste their prime years under the guidance of a coach in way over his head, and who comes up smallest when it matters most.
 

boozeman

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LOL..come on man....I didn't even list all the other QB's that have absolutely flatlined here. Do we need to write them out? Take Conner out of the equation and my question still stands. Is Garrett able to sniff out a good QB?

Midswat is right, the Raiders saved us a major fuck up and Dak fell into our laps because of Linehan.
Actually it was probably more Wade Wilson than Linehan.
 

Smitty

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With all due respect, we're at an impasse. The fact that I believe with entirety that what I posted is 100% true, and you suggest it's 100% wrong just indicates we ought to just agree to disagree.

In a few years though, when Garrett is relieved of his duties and Dallas still hasn't been to, let alone won, another Super Bowl - probably won't even make it past the divisional round - I promise not to send you a "I told you so" PM. I just hope the day he is canned comes sooner rather than later. I'd hate for another group of supremely talented players to waste their prime years under the guidance of a coach in way over his head, and who comes up smallest when it matters most.
Well, not winning a Super Bowl doesn't necessarily disprove me. But sure... I wish these arguments would die already. I don't even care that people don't like him... I just am tired of "if they win anything they will win in spite of him." Just hyperbole.
 

Carp

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If Garrett gets no credit for Dak, how about ensuring we got Zeke? Jerry very much had Zeke in the same group as Ramsey and Floyd in 2016. The day prior to the draft Garrett watched every snap of both Zeke and Ramsey...he liked Ramsey...he loved Zeke. I mention this because Bal had offered 6 and 104 to move up to 4. Very reasonable to think Chi would have taken Elliott and we take Floyd. Then with 34 and 104, plus something else...we would have moved up to take Lynch. So we could have ended up with no Zeke...no Dak...no Jaylen Smith...while getting Floyd and a huge question mark in Lynch. Not only this, but maybe no Collins because we would have still had to address the RB position.

Linehan and Wilson did sit down with Dak at the Senior Bowl and poured over game tape with him...to their credit. So why did Garrett not do that...well, he was coaching the side opposite Dak...kind of hard to do under the circumstances. Props to Wilson and Linehan for close up evaluating a player in that instance that Garrett had no reasonable chance to.
 
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