Scruggs: Mike Lombardi Rips Jason Garrett's Coaching Ability

ravidubey

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If we go like 8-8 this year I'd definitely think hard about firing Garrett
If we go 8-8 again with this roster you have to go in another direction.

It's lazy to require a big name be available before making a change. I can't believe at any given time that there isn't a strong HC candidate out there.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Those guys were just more luckier than Garrett. And stuff. Poor clapping ginger has been hampered by personnel issues that those guys never have.
I thought the idea was obvious.

But I also count the what, three win and in games in the 8-8 seasons where we laid a turd.

I guess that is just too unfair for Garrett.
Everyone knows you can't truly judge a coach until he has All-Pro talent on both sides of the ball.

And no injuries. In football.
 

UncleMilti

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Faceguarding is legal.

They reverse angle shows the receiver pulled Hitchens's jersey, but Fox never showed it. It was the deep ref with the right viewing angle who had the flag picked up.

Detroit at least had a real defense. Suh was on fire that game and the Detroit front gave the Cowboys OL all they could handle.

Dallas should have fricking buried Green Bay, but we let their damned average defense stop us too many times on key 3rd downs.
Not once, but twice when it really mattered. Its really ridiculous when you break it down, and its on Marinelli and Garrett IMO.
 

UncleMilti

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People should be ok with it because the arrow is pointed up. Here's the deal... you actually don't know at all if we will ever win a Super Bowl with Garrett at head coach.... chances aren't great maybe, but he actually does have this team extraordinarily competitive right now. So yeah.... I'm ok with it as long as he keeps turning in playoff seasons, which he's 2 for the last 3 and would be 3 for 3 if not for Romo's injury last year.

I'm not especially concerned with three consecutive 8-8 seasons when he had a sub par (in some years, worst in football) OL and a below average defense. The Cowboys were in no position to compete then, so I don't really care if a better coach might have won a game or two more.... thats water under the bridge now.

I care about going forward and without having a better option in sight, it makes no sense to fire a guy who has us seemingly on the cusp of a nice run of playoff years.
I have an issue with Garrett because with the talent Dallas has, they should be in the NFC Championship games and competing for a SB.

Instead, we are stuck getting our ass handed to us by a one legged Aaron Rodgers, then an Aaron Rodgers with a worse defense than ours, AND without his best WR and RB. Meanwhile, Dallas has EVERY guy on O and D healthy and had HFA. They may have missed their best opportunity with the current core to get to a SB.

Let that shit sink in for a few, then tell me why Garrett should be allowed to stay as head coach.

Garrett shits the bed when the big games are on the line, and thats been a huge problem to date as far as getting over the hump.
 
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ravidubey

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If Tapper and Smith join Collins and become players, 2016's draft yield would be unheard of.

If these guys become players and we go 8-8 or one and done, you have to toss Jason Garrett. Marty got booted for going 14-2 with a similar plethora of talent. It's just an unacceptable waste.
 

Smitty

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I have an issue with Garrett because with the talent Dallas has, they should be in the NFC Championship games and competing for a SB.
I do not agree that they have been the most talented 1-2-3 teams in the NFC with any consistency. Their defenses in particular have been pretty bad.

The past 3 years or so you could probably make a good argument that they were one of the most talented 3-4 teams in the conference. THE most? I think that's debateable.

Instead, we are stuck getting our ass handed to us by a one legged Aaron Rodgers, then an Aaron Rodgers with a worse defense than ours, AND without his best WR and RB. Meanwhile, Dallas has EVERY guy on O and D healthy and had HFA. They may have missed their best opportunity with the current core to get to a SB.
Aaron Rodgers is the best player on the field when we play and it's not particularly close.

Also we have had our share of injury problems, that's not really a fair statement.

Let that shit sink in for a few, then tell me why Garrett should be allowed to stay as head coach.
I have told everyone repeatedly why I think he should stay. You are looking at it from the perspective of "He hasn't done good enough, so his punishment should be termination."

I am looking at it differently. I agree he hasn't been a Super Bowl caliber coach. But I don't see a realistic option for improvement at the HC spot MOST OFFSEASONS.

There are exceptions to that of course.

Garrett shits the bed when the big games are on the line, and thats been a huge problem to date as far as getting over the hump.
I think this is overblown, but I will stipulate that he's been an average HC not really able to truly elevate the team.

There are positives though. He does have this team pointed in the right direction generally.

I am willing to take continued 12-4 seasons and hope Garrett can get the team to put together a run, rather than risking it all on an unknown replacement.

If the next Jim Harbaugh surfaces from the college ranks, ie, a guy everyone knows is gonna be a great NFL coach, then I will change my tune. Well.... not coming off a 13-3 season. Can't really fire the coach then.

But if he finishes 9-7 and gets bounced early in the playoffs, yeah.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Aaron Rodgers is the best player on the field when we play and it's not particularly close.
He was the following week against Atlanta, too. And the Falcons handed them their ass.

Also we have had our share of injury problems, that's not really a fair statement.
Not last year.



There are positives though. He does have this team pointed in the right direction generally.
There it is! :lol

Look, I don't think anyone really believes he's going anywhere, do they? He's entrenched for the same reason he got the job to begin with: He's Jerry's boy.

Doesn't make it any less frustrating, though.
 

boozeman

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I'm not following.
Not surprising.

Your stated if he had 2015 Romo, those 8-8 seasons go 11-5. I call bullshit.

It took him being stripped of the play calling responsibilities for him to even sniff above .500. He had Romo in his prime and squandered the best years of his career having little to no reliance on the run game. It is not a coincidence 2015 Romo was with a run game.
 

Smitty

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There it is! :lol

Look, I don't think anyone really believes he's going anywhere, do they? He's entrenched for the same reason he got the job to begin with: He's Jerry's boy.

Doesn't make it any less frustrating, though.
Lots of people believe we have a decent chance to make some noise in this year and the coming years. They are just not well represented in the handful of curmudgeons on this board.

We may never win, but the owner/GM is as big a reason for that as anything else.
 

Smitty

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Not surprising.

Your stated if he had 2015 Romo, those 8-8 seasons go 11-5. I call bullshit.

It took him being stripped of the play calling responsibilities for him to even sniff above .500. He had Romo in his prime and squandered the best years of his career having little to no reliance on the run game. It is not a coincidence 2015 Romo was with a run game.
No, I think you misunderstood. I said if he had Romo in 2015, he doesn't go 4-12 that particular year, he goes closer to the 12-4 he was the year before or the 13-3 he was the year after.

In which case, his records would be as follows:

2010: 5-3
2011: 8-8
2012: 8-8
2013: 8-8
2014: 12-4
2015: 11-5 (this is the with-Romo assumption, as we were 2-0 with him and 2-14 without him)
2016: 13-3

If this was what happened, we wouldn't be saying that his successful seasons were "outliers." It'd be a pretty clear trend that he took an average team and built them into a pretty good playoff team. Unfortunately that's not what happened, but I find it hard to say that 4-12 season was a legitimate 4-12 season, without any semblance of an adequate QB, and a WR who was injured pretty much the whole season, and never having replaced the RB effectively.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Lots of people believe we have a decent chance to make some noise in this year and the coming years.
I'm one of those. If Dak is as good as it looks like, we should be one of the better teams in the conference for many years. Having a good QB is about 80% of the battle in this league.

But that doesn't mean you keep Garrett if you want to maximize your potential. People have mentioned Mike Smith, and that's a good one. But without thinking about it too hard, Garrett reminds me of a Mike Sherman (though actually not even that good). Sherman won a few division titles with Favre and had a very good overall winning percentage --a much better one than Garrett -- his first several years at Green Bay. But he didn't really add anything. He was just along for the ride. What happened to him after the Packers let him go? He was hired as OC at A&M, then what? I don't even know. Meanwhile the Packers hired McCarthy and went on to better things.
 

boozeman

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No, I think you misunderstood. I said if he had Romo in 2015, he doesn't go 4-12 that particular year, he goes closer to the 12-4 he was the year before or the 13-3 he was the year after.

In which case, his records would be as follows:

2010: 5-3
2011: 8-8
2012: 8-8
2013: 8-8
2014: 12-4
2015: 11-5 (this is the with-Romo assumption, as we were 2-0 with him and 2-14 without him)
2016: 13-3

If this was what happened, we wouldn't be saying that his successful seasons were "outliers." It'd be a pretty clear trend that he took an average team and built them into a pretty good playoff team. Unfortunately that's not what happened, but I find it hard to say that 4-12 season was a legitimate 4-12 season, without any semblance of an adequate QB, and a WR who was injured pretty much the whole season, and never having replaced the RB effectively.
I love this pretend game you are playing. Dismiss the three consecutive .500 seasons and just assume there is a trend developing right now. The only real trend is he cannot win the big games. He could not win any of the win and in games for three seasons running and has been bounced out of the playoffs in the divisional round twice.
 

midswat

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Yeah but Mike Sherman didnt have Green Bay "pointed in the right direction."
 

UncleMilti

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I'm one of those. If Dak is as good as it looks like, we should be one of the better teams in the conference for many years. Having a good QB is about 80% of the battle in this league.

But that doesn't mean you keep Garrett if you want to maximize your potential. People have mentioned Mike Smith, and that's a good one. But without thinking about it too hard, Garrett reminds me of a Mike Sherman (though actually not even that good). Sherman won a few division titles with Favre and had a very good overall winning percentage --a much better one than Garrett -- his first several years at Green Bay. But he didn't really add anything. He was just along for the ride. What happened to him after the Packers let him go? He was hired as OC at A&M, then what? I don't even know. Meanwhile the Packers hired McCarthy and went on to better things.
Great example.
 

Simpleton

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Taking a step back from this I think the litmus test for Garrett should be that he at least gets the team to an NFCC in the next two years, and if not he's gone. If there are catastrophic injuries or some kind of mitigating circumstances maybe he gets a third but I think the pressure has to be on given that this team should be one of the best in the conference over the next couple years.
 

Smitty

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Well, Sherman was fired coming off a 4-12 season probably very similar to a Wade Phillips season in which the team was just a mess. If Garrett has a season like that in a season like this in which we have playoff expectations, I would be pretty sure he will be fired for an unknown like McCarthy.

You keep saying 'If you want to improve, if you want to maximize your potential, you move on from Garrett" etc, but I think that is where we are having a major disconnect. I don't think that statement is necessarily true here. With Jerry Jones doing the hiring, who has any confidence that the next hire is going to be any better? We aren't the Steelers, Giants, or Packers who keep finding solid long term coaches because they are well run, stable organizations. Garrett is the longest tenured coach since Landry cause Jerry has been unable or unwilling to coexist with anyone else for longer than 5 years.

Without bringing in a sure fire coaching prospect, we could completely disrupt the positive direction of this franchise by firing Garrett. If we bring in a Vance Joseph or someone like that, we could be plunged back into the Phillips or the Gailey years.

We are sitting in a middle of the road situation with our head coach, I don't think anyone denies that, but where there may be a disagreement is that I see potential for the team to win still with him here. I think his positives can outweigh his negatives and it could happen. Haven't been able to say that about like, our last 4 head coaches aside from Parcells, so yes, I agree we can upgrade.... I'm just not in a hurry to rush in blind to a situation like that.

Again.... 12-4 and 13-3 in our last two healthy-ish seasons. I'll take that as long as it keeps happening rather than roll the dice on someone possibly worse... and there are worse out there.
 

Smitty

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I love this pretend game you are playing. Dismiss the three consecutive .500 seasons and just assume there is a trend developing right now. The only real trend is he cannot win the big games. He could not win any of the win and in games for three seasons running and has been bounced out of the playoffs in the divisional round twice.
No one is dismissing them... in fact they are pretty central to my stance that they demonstrate improvement.

8-8... 12-4... 13-3. See? Arrow up.

I love this pretend game you are playing that there isn't a trend upwards. You actually think we finish .500 or worse with Romo in 2015? :lol
 

UncleMilti

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I do not agree that they have been the most talented 1-2-3 teams in the NFC with any consistency. Their defenses in particular have been pretty bad.

The past 3 years or so you could probably make a good argument that they were one of the most talented 3-4 teams in the conference. THE most? I think that's debateable.



Aaron Rodgers is the best player on the field when we play and it's not particularly close.

Also we have had our share of injury problems, that's not really a fair statement.
You are cherry picking. You know as well as anyone else that the NFL today is not defined by true talent. Its so watered down, that coaching and basic good luck plays into winning the SB. Dallas had a superb chance of at least getting to the SB last year. They were 100% healthy according to Garrett and our QB was having a season like no one had seen in a long time and a RB that couldn't be stopped.. As far as GB and Rodgers...Rodgers might be good, but he was still handicapped by his missing players and Atlanta exposed that easily.



I have told everyone repeatedly why I think he should stay. You are looking at it from the perspective of "He hasn't done good enough, so his punishment should be termination."

I am looking at it differently. I agree he hasn't been a Super Bowl caliber coach. But I don't see a realistic option for improvement at the HC spot MOST OFFSEASONS.

There are exceptions to that of course.
I won't really argue that point, because you are right...I'm not sure there's a better candidate out there right now. but even if one pops up, Garrett ain't going anywhere. But it doesn't negate the fact the guy comes up small in big games.



I think this is overblown, but I will stipulate that he's been an average HC not really able to truly elevate the team.

There are positives though. He does have this team pointed in the right direction generally.

I am willing to take continued 12-4 seasons and hope Garrett can get the team to put together a run, rather than risking it all on an unknown replacement.

If the next Jim Harbaugh surfaces from the college ranks, ie, a guy everyone knows is gonna be a great NFL coach, then I will change my tune. Well.... not coming off a 13-3 season. Can't really fire the coach then.

But if he finishes 9-7 and gets bounced early in the playoffs, yeah.
To me, having a team that can string together 12-4 seasons but yet get bounced when the games really matter is worse than having 6-10 teams. At least a 6-10 is reason to say, "well we suck ass" instead of "hey we won 12 games only to sit home to watch another Championship game and SB". That's fucking maddening.
 
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