Scruggs: Mike Lombardi Rips Jason Garrett's Coaching Ability

townsend said:

You see, I don't buy the "anything good is Linehan, everything bad is Garrett" logic. That's just picking your favorites.

Click to expand...

That's all that 90% of Garrett complaints are anymore.

Cherry picking bad game calls, bad outcomes, and bad losses, and pretending it's unique to Garrett.

The only way to uphold that narrative is to explain away everything bad that happens as Garrett related and everything good that happens as assistant or personnel related.

It happens with segments of every fanbase. I'm a (hockey) Rangers fan and all I hear is how Alain Vigneault, the coach who has taken them to a Cup Final, and two Conference Finals, and the playoffs every single year... is the worst coach evar and needs to be fired right now! For anyone who can replace him!

When you point out that the guy they want to replace him with was fired for the same problems in his last stop, they find some way to pretend Vigneault is worse.

mschmidt64 said:

That's all that 90% of Garrett complaints are anymore.

Cherry picking bad game calls, bad outcomes, and bad losses, and pretending it's unique to Garrett.

The only way to uphold that narrative is to explain away everything bad that happens as Garrett related and everything good that happens as assistant or personnel related.

It happens with segments of every fanbase. I'm a (hockey) Rangers fan and all I hear is how Alain Vigneault, the coach who has taken them to a Cup Final, and two Conference Finals, and the playoffs every single year... is the worst coach evar and needs to be fired right now! For anyone who can replace him!

When you point out that the guy they want to replace him with was fired for the same problems in his last stop, they find some way to pretend Vigneault is worse.

Click to expand...

I think it's fair to say that he wasn't a very good coordinator, that the team has benefited from Linehan having more control in playcalling, and that in any other organization he would have been cut lose before his team ever came together. He did not win this job, or keep it through 2013, based on merit.

It's also fair to say that both the 2014 and 2016 teams seemed to underperform in the playoffs, and that he deserved criticism for them coming in with less edge than they closed the season with.

But I don't need to hear bellyaching for bellyaching's sake. We frequently win close games, pretending like we can't is f***ing stupid. Defense is our biggest problem and the Packers team that ripped a decent Giants defense apart in the wild card shredded our undertalented unit like toilet paper. I don't think anyone could have come up with a gameplan that accounts for Rodgers scoring at will. Pointing to bad clock management, when this team overcame a 19 point deficit and forced Crosby to make two long field goals to close a game for the first time in his career, is just bonkers. The offense delivered.

To look at a game that, if Crosby hadn't had the best night of his career, could have easily been one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history, without Garrett changing a single decision, and act like he did a poor job is just ridiculous. As if all the adjustments and decisions that took this from a blowout at halftime to a one possession game didn't matter.

Garrett made a crucial mistake, and he also coached an overall decent game. But just like how people obsessed with shitting on Dak would rather focus on one interception than 3 TDs, people who have an irrational hatred of Garrett want to cherry pick mistakes without giving any credit for what was clearly a good year of coaching.

townsend said:

I think it's fair to say that he wasn't a very good coordinator, that the team has benefited from Linehan having more control in playcalling, and that in any other organization he would have been cut lose before his team ever came together. He did not win this job, or keep it through 2013, based on merit.

It's also fair to say that both the 2014 and 2016 teams seemed to underperform in the playoffs, and that he deserved criticism for them coming in with less edge than they closed the season with.

But I don't need to hear bellyaching for bellyaching's sake. We frequently win close games, pretending like we can't is f***ing stupid. Defense is our biggest problem and the Packers team that ripped a decent Giants defense apart in the wild card shredded our undertalented unit like toilet paper. I don't think anyone could have come up with a gameplan that accounts for Rodgers scoring at will. Pointing to bad clock management, when this team overcame a 19 point deficit and forced Crosby to make two long field goals to close a game for the first time in his career, is just bonkers. The offense delivered.

To look at a game that, if Crosby hadn't had the best night of his career, could have easily been one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history, without Garrett changing a single decision, and act like he did a poor job is just ridiculous. As if all the adjustments and decisions that took this from a blowout at halftime to a one possession game didn't matter.

Garrett made a crucial mistake, and he also coached an overall decent game. But just like how people obsessed with shitting on Dak would rather focus on one interception than 3 TDs, people who have an irrational hatred of Garrett want to cherry pick mistakes without giving any credit for what was clearly a good year of coaching.

Click to expand...

I probably like Garrett a bit more than you do, but I'll give you credit for at least pointing out that many of the complaints are just bellyaching.

mschmidt64 said:

Dak is an incredible worker and leader... so are a bunch of NFL players who don't pan out.

He's also incredibly talented and yes, people just missed that.

But he wasn't such a sure-fire thing that there was no coaching required. Saying otherwise is the height of foolishness.

What's more, you don't even believe it. Any other situation you would give a ton of credit to the coach. You are just saying it because, you know, fuck Garrett.

Click to expand...

No, I don't agree with that at all. Dak has extremely rare leadership abilities. He just has "it", that thing players like and respect and want to play for. It's that thing that can't be coached, that thing that Romo never had (even though I liked Romo). That is not commonplace at all. Our preferred Connor Cook had almost the opposite of that.

So Jerry is Jason's boss?

Kinda like Jason is Linehan's boss.

Interesting.

Click to expand...

Actually, no, they aren't the same at all. More like Jerry is the boss of Linehan also. I like how you completely ignored the part about Jerry taking playcalling from Garrett (the second time) and giving it to the coordinator who wouldn't be subject to the HC taking it back this time.

When Jimmy joked that "Jerry thinks he's the walkaround coach", he wasn't really kidding.

Chocolate Lab said:

No, I don't agree with that at all.

Click to expand...

You don't agree that there are a bunch of players who are incredibly hard workers who still don't pan out?

Okay then.

Dak has extremely rare leadership abilities. He just has "it", that thing players like and respect and want to play for. It's that thing that can't be coached, that thing that Romo never had (even though I liked Romo). That is not commonplace at all.

Click to expand...

Too bad it takes more than that to be a good NFL player.

Actually, no, they aren't the same at all. More like Jerry is the boss of Linehan also. I like how you completely ignored the part about Jerry taking playcalling from Garrett (the second time) and giving it to the coordinator who wouldn't be subject to the HC taking it back this time.

Click to expand...

I'm not even sure what your point about that is.

If you think it's evidence that Garrett doesn't have input into what Linehan is doing, it's not connecting.

So.... your evidence that Linehan acts autonomously is that he's actually answerable to someone even higher up the chain of command? Yeah... ok. Either way, Linehan is not calling his own shots without approval from above, so crediting him for all these changes is misdirected.

You can believe Jerry Jones is secretly running the offense.... or you can believe its the head coach with decades of experience.

But it's not really plausible that Jerry Jones has the know-how to make complex decisions like that. He's more like a give random directives kind of manager.

Umm...

Yes, lots of players with no talent work hard. That's not even a question. But I've obviously referenced more the leadership qualities. Let's not act like it's commonplace for players to do what Dak did in college at a longtime blah program.

And I never suggested Jerry was running the offense on a play-to-play basis. Of course he doesn't. Linehan does. Jerry just made sure Garrett didn't interfere with him.

Chocolate Lab said:

Yes, lots of players with no talent work hard. That's not even a question. But I've obviously referenced more the leadership qualities. Let's not act like it's commonplace for players to do what Dak did in college at a longtime blah program.

Click to expand...

Let's also not act like it's realistic that a 4th round pick can waltz in, not receive a lick of relevant coaching, and do what he did last year.

Oh wait.... It was all Linehan! That's it!

Hurray! Garrett still sucks!

And I never suggested Jerry was running the offense on a play-to-play basis. Of course he doesn't. Linehan does. Jerry just made sure Garrett didn't interfere with him.

Click to expand...

Jerry interfered when Callahan was here, a guy lots of people disliked. There is no evidence that Jerry has stepped in at all in the relationship between Garrett and Linehan, a pro-Garrett guy with ties to him from a previous regime, here.

Linehan is doing what Garrett tells him here, not vice versa. Linehan calls plays, sure.

It's Garrett's offense though. It's his design, his plays in the playbook, etc.

Try to keep your arguments straight. Everyone criticizes Garrett for not having a diverse and unique enough offense, remember? We don't put Dez in the slot, etc, etc. Bad Garrett! Bad!

Yeah, so it's Garrett's offense.

mschmidt64 said:

Jerry interfered when Callahan was here, a guy lots of people disliked. There is no evidence that Jerry has stepped in at all in the relationship between Garrett and Linehan, a pro-Garrett guy with ties to him from a previous regime, here.

Linehan is doing what Garrett tells him here, not vice versa. Linehan calls plays, sure.

It's Garrett's offense though. It's his design, his plays in the playbook, etc.

Click to expand...

LOL. Did you miss the part I referenced before about Dan Mullen copying Linehan's offense in college and what a big advantage that was for Dak coming in here?

This isn't Garrett's offense other than their both being Coryell guys.

Question, when do you ever see Garrett talking to Linehan during a game? Garrett's headphone microphone might as well be a prop. He never talks into it.

Anyway, enough wasted keystrokes for today. But my position isn't that everything bad is Garrett. Can't speak for anyone else, but my position is that Garrett doesn't do much of anything (aside from challenge flags and timeouts) beyond chewing gum, clapping, butt-patting and giving press conferences.

Oh, and dreaming up witty training camp t-shirt slogans. Can't forget those.

You are just making up nonsense and trying to pass it off as insight.

"This isn't Garrett's offense other than being Coryell." Uh, what? The dude was the offensive coordinator here for years. He installed this offense. He chose every facet of how it works, then personally picked Linehan to come and help him run it.

But he doesn't do anything. We don't see him talking to Linehan during the game, are you serious? You think Linehan and Garrett do not talk during games? You are delusional.

Ooookay.

Wasted keystrokes indeed.

Of course Garrett sucks. Most coaches do. At any given time there are like 5 good head coaches in the NFL, and most of them burn out quickly anyway

dallen said:

Of course Garrett sucks. Most coaches do. At any given time there are like 5 good head coaches in the NFL, and most of them burn out quickly anyway

Click to expand...

Fair enough!

mschmidt64 said:

Yeah no shit, the best coach in the league? Who ever said Garrett was anywhere near that? Belichick isn't available.

You know who was available? Ben McAdoo. Doug Pedersen. Doug Marrone. Adam Gase. Todd Bowles.

These are Garrett's measuring stick, not Bill Belichick.

Anyone who says they'd take those guys over Garrett is only saying so because they are tired of Garrett and/or personally dislike him and want to punitively fire him. Those guys aren't a lick better.

Click to expand...

Odd how you chose those guys to compare Garrett too, but ignored guys like Dan Quinn, Bruce Arians, and Ron Rivera. All guys hired after Garrett, and who have proven to be better head coaches.

Also, some of those guys you listed have only been a coach for a single season.

My point is... Garrett has been here as head coach since 2010.

Here's the list of head coaches who are more tenured:

Bill Belichick (2000) - 5 Super Bowl wins, 7 AFC Championships
Marvin Lewis (2003) - Its the Bengals FFS
Sean Payton (2006) - 1 Super Bowl win, 1 additional NFC Title games
Mike McCarthy (2006) - 1 Super Bowl win, 1 NFC Championship
Mike Tomlin (2007) - 1 Super Bowl win, 2 AFC Championships
John Harbaugh (2008) - 1 Super Bowl win, 1 AFC Championship
Pete Carrol (2010) - 1 Super Bowl win, 2 NFC Championships



So here's the deal... guys like Belichick are one in a million. You're likely not going to find the next Lombardi or Belichick or Jimmy Johnson. But you ought to be able to find a guy who can come in and make an immediate impact and coach these guys over the top. Garrett is unjustifiably so the 7th most tenured head coach in the league. Everyone more senior, save Marvin Lewis, has won a championship. Meanwhile we've seen relative new hire coaches come in and get their teams to Super Bowls. Yet our guy has been here 7 years, and despite getting MVP type performances from both the QB and RB in two separate years, can't advance past the divisional round. Despite having franchise QB's for six of his seven years (injury year discounted), and playing in a relatively weak division - only has two playoff appearances and one playoff win.

And people are supposed to be okay with that because.... well... we might not find the next Belichick?

If only Arthur Blank had stuck with Mike Smith (who got them to a NFC Championship, btw) because they couldn't find the next Belichick.

mschmidt64 said:

You are just making up nonsense and trying to pass it off as insight.

Click to expand...

Just for the record, I haven't made up anything. Everything I said was true.

I was mainly trying to get across that I'm not one of the ones who claims Garrett does nothing but then blames him for bad play calls. That would be unfair, because he doesn't call plays.

And I'm sure he talks to Linehan at halftime, maybe during timeouts. Yes, I know he's in on gameplanning (or I assume so). But seriously, when do you ever see him talking into his headset? He basically never does, even in big situations. All he does is smack his gum. I've never seen a coach talk as little as he does, even aforementioned "walk around" coaches.

2000 NE Patriots fans be like, "Fuck this Belichick hire. Keep Pete Carroll. Belichick's head coaching record is 36-44. Belichick is not a definitive, inarguable improvement. He ain't no Mike Holmgren."

pdom said:

2000 NE Patriots fans be like, "Fuck this Belichick hire. Keep Pete Carroll. Belichick's head coaching record is 36-44. Belichick is not a definitive, inarguable improvement. He ain't no Mike Holmgren."

Click to expand...

Pete Carroll ended up turning out ok.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Pete Carroll ended up turning out ok.

Click to expand...

It's almost like coaches can improve over time.

townsend said:

It's almost like coaches can improve over time.

Click to expand...

It's funny. Even the best head coaches have gone through stops on their career paths that didn't turn out great. Belichick in Cleveland for example. Pete Carroll in New England. Jimmy Johnson in Miami. People are always really eager to just replace a head coach any time things don't go perfectly as planned. But the solution to the teams problem usually has more to do with the players on the team.

Cowboysrock55 said:

But the solution to the teams problem usually has more to do with the players on the team.

Click to expand...

But Garrett has had it better than most. He had a serviceable to top QB his entire tenure, which many didn't and he still has been a .500 coach save two outlier seasons.

boozeman said:

But Garrett has had it better than most. He had a serviceable to top QB his entire tenure, which many didn't and he still has been a .500 coach save two outlier seasons.

Click to expand...

Yeah I don't want to be a Garrett apologist. I don't like him enough for that. But I do feel like 2 of the last 3 years this team has really started to get onto a formula for winning lots of games. And I don't want to mess with that right now. If we have an 8-8 season next year, I'll be fully on board with dumping Garrett after that season. Right now just isn't the right time.

midswat said:

Odd how you chose those guys to compare Garrett too, but ignored guys like Dan Quinn, Bruce Arians, and Ron Rivera. All guys hired after Garrett, and who have proven to be better head coaches.

Click to expand...

Those guys were just more luckier than Garrett. And stuff. Poor clapping ginger has been hampered by personnel issues that those guys never have.