Trickle down is bullshit

townsend

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I never said it's nothing.

Are you really trying to say the stockholders of Caterpillar are doing the same work as the people on the factory floor?

The same can be said across industries from NOV to Perdue chicken.

I don't know why some take this so personal I am not attacking you or your business or all companies for that matter.

There are companies like Costco and Yummly yogurt who treat their employees very well and I am sure there are tons more.
NOV is such a shit operation. They paid their FSTs nearly a fraction of what my company paid. Friend of mine got fired from there because he got kidnapped in Mexico.
 

L.T. Fan

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I already knew those scenarios before we started this whole conversation.

And penalty scenario came from you, in regard to paying employee's a higher share of profits.
Again you don't pay an employee profits. The profits belong to the owner. You only pay an employee via expenses charged to the company. Didn't you take anything away from this exercise. If you are just trying to reignite a debate forget it. I have explained it.
 

Jiggyfly

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I don't think so. You will have to point me to the penalty thing because I can't recall using it in any profit sharing conversation. Maybe in a, tax scenario but that wouldn't fit into any discretionary profit sharing process. I will just wait to see what you come up with.

If you were already aware of these scenarios then why and what were you debating?
Never mind.:unsure
 

Jiggyfly

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NOV is such a shit operation. They paid their FSTs nearly a fraction of what my company paid. Friend of mine got fired from there because he got kidnapped in Mexico.
Yeah I worked at a plant that made drilling pipe and fittings and they paid crap.

I stuck around with the hope I would be able to move up but if you know how to operate everything and show up to work they don't want you to leave their shop.

And then when it comes to a raise anything they give you should be be looked at as a favor no matter how good your evaluation is.

I was hoping to get on the corporate side eventually but it was like crabs n a barrel, you ain't going anywhere.

Luckily I had a degree to fall back on and the plant laid off a shit ton of people when prices started dropping.

But a lot of people were stuck their being in a small town like this one.
 
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Jiggyfly

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Again you don't pay an employee profits. The profits belong to the owner. You only pay an employee via expenses charged to the company. Didn't you take anything away from this exercise. If you are just trying to reignite a debate forget it. I have explained it.
 

townsend

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Again you don't pay an employee profits. The profits belong to the owner. You only pay an employee via expenses charged to the company. Didn't you take anything away from this exercise. If you are just trying to reignite a debate forget it. I have explained it.
You can however extend stock options to employees., thereby making them partial owners. That seems like a practice worth subsidizing.
 

townsend

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Yeah I worked at a plant that made drilling pipe and fittings and they paid crap.

I stuck around with the hope I would be able to move up but if you know how to operate everything and show up to work they don't want you to leave their shop.

And then when it comes to a raise anything they give you should be be looked at as a favor no matter how good your evaluation is.

I was hoping to get on the corporate side eventually but it was like crabs n a barrel, you ain't going anywhere.

Luckily I had a degree to fall back on and the plant laid off a shit ton of people when prices started dropping.

But a lot of people were stuck their being in a small town like this one.
A good friend (not the same one that got kidnapped) encountered some of that stuff From NOV. His department split and he was left in a career with no path upwards, since the job he wanted was no longer part of his dept. He's going to be a Senior Reactor Operator for a nuclear plant in Jersey now, so it worked out for the best.
 

skidadl

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That's why I say screw The Man! Do your own thing. Find a dream and put all the chips in for it. Sink or swim baby! The man will be there if you fail. Everyone can get a job.
 

BipolarFuk

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Yep, corporate sent some accountant cunt to my wife's job.

Profit margin wasn't high enough she said.

When that fucking twat got done making her recommendations for termination, my wife went from happy with her job, usually getting home at a reasonable time, working over occasionally to miserable and on anti depressants because now she has to do the job of two others, working at least 80 hours per week with no extra pay because the cunt motherfuckers have her on salary.
 

skidadl

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Yep, corporate sent some accountant cunt to my wife's job.

Profit margin wasn't high enough she said.

When that fucking twat got done making her recommendations for termination, my wife went from happy with her job, usually getting home at a reasonable time, working over occasionally to miserable and on anti depressants because now she has to do the job of two others, working at least 80 hours per week with no extra pay because the cunt motherfuckers have her on salary.
That sucks man.
 

L.T. Fan

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You can however extend stock options to employees., thereby making them partial owners. That seems like a practice worth subsidizing.
That a discretionary thing as well and falls within the area of perks and benefits. That was never the point I was making. I was saying that once a company declares the net profit that amounts belongs to the owners and cannot be made available to pay benefits to employees. If the board or owners wish to pay bonuses, or any other benefits to employees including stock options it must be done at the companies expense not the amounts that are declared for the ownership.

If you were one of the owners and not employed by the company and the company closed the books for their year end declaring the shareholders earnings and then told you they were going to use part of your profits to pay employee stock options, you would not sit still for that. Reason being the company should have done this and charged it to the company expense not your owner equity account. It's a simple premise.

Now whether a company could or should pay employees more perks and benefits is simply an ownership determination but if they do they charge it as an expense to the company and not an owner's personal equity account. Comprenda?
 

townsend

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That a discretionary thing as well and falls within the area of perks and benefits. That was never the point I was making. I was saying that once a company declares the net profit that amounts belongs to the owners and cannot be made available to pay benefits to employees. If the board or owners wish to pay bonuses, or any other benefits to employees including stock options it must be done at the companies expense not the amounts that are declared for the ownership.

If you were one of the owners and not employed by the company and the company closed the books for their year end declaring the shareholders earnings and then told you they were going to use part of your profits to pay employee stock options, you would not sit still for that. Reason being the company should have done this and charged it to the company expense not your owner equity account. It's a simple premise.

Now whether a company could or should pay employees more perks and benefits is simply an ownership determination but if they do they charge it as an expense to the company and not an owner's personal equity account. Comprenda?
Well presumably, unless the company is paying out dividends, which seems like a thing that happens rarely in this day and age, the money would still be in the company's war chest. They could budget for raises, bonuses, or increased staffing as an investment for the next fiscal year, just as much as you could budget for investing in new equipment/land/technology etc.

Now admittedly, I'm not as worried about wages proportional to profits, as I am wages being cut to artificially boost profits. If your employees are paid well enough to thrive , then the employers deserve every penny of their profits, in my view.
 

townsend

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That's why I say screw The Man! Do your own thing. Find a dream and put all the chips in for it. Sink or swim baby! The man will be there if you fail. Everyone can get a job.
I've actually talked about starting a business with my fiancee a few times. She's a very skilled at management, administration, and marketing, but some son of a bitch along the way talked her into pursuing her bliss, so she makes 11 an hour with no benefits working for a community theatre. If I could ever get her to leave the arts behind, I'd put in for a VA business loan the next day.
 

L.T. Fan

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Well presumably, unless the company is paying out dividends, which seems like a thing that happens rarely in this day and age, the money would still be in the company's war chest. They could budget for raises, bonuses, or increased staffing as an investment for the next fiscal year, just as much as you could budget for investing in new equipment/land/technology etc.

Now admittedly, I'm not as worried about wages proportional to profits, as I am wages being cut to artificially boost profits. If your employees are paid well enough to thrive , then the employers deserve every penny of their profits, in my view.
If the money in the presumed war chest was in the form of retained earnings yes they could expense toward that end. If however it was in stockholders equity and part of the equity capital it could nor be utilized in this manner because the capital is owned by someone and no longer available for company use.
 

townsend

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If the money in the presumed war chest was in the form of retained earnings yes they could expense toward that end. If however it was in stockholders equity and part of the equity capital it could nor be utilized in this manner because the capital is owned by someone and no longer available for company use.
That's interesting.
 

L.T. Fan

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That's interesting.
It's equity either way but in a different form. Retained earnings simply means the company has chosen not to distribute the earnings. They are simply held by the company and can be utilized but are still part of the company's capital structure. The stockholder shares are valued by a combination of the earnings plus owner equity. At some point the company can utilize the funds or distribute to owner equity.
 

skidadl

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I've actually talked about starting a business with my fiancee a few times. She's a very skilled at management, administration, and marketing, but some son of a bitch along the way talked her into pursuing her bliss, so she makes 11 an hour with no benefits working for a community theatre. If I could ever get her to leave the arts behind, I'd put in for a VA business loan the next day.
:lol frakin arts, man! Get her creative side working on a business. Creativity can be used in that realm. Though it is very unusual to have a creative/administrative person wrapped up in one person. That's rare.
 

skidadl

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I'm watching Requiem for the American Dream right now. No pre judgments at all. I'm gonna watch it blindly.
 

skidadl

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Requiem for the American Dream is an interesting watch. I agree with him on a bunch but disagree with so much more. Check it out on Netflix.

The dude is a libertarian socialist.
 
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