Do you guys remember when

townsend

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God, I never thought I'd side with Schmidt on anything. But Garrett just isn't that bad of a liability. Clearly he's had to learn on the job, and he could have and should have leaned on the run more. He's untalented at the Xs and Os aspect of coaching and could never succeed with an average coordinator on either side of the ball.

But you'd have to be pretty stupid to not see the change in culture that's happened to this team. How many gutless performances did we see in 2016? That's one hell of a demon to exorcise. Even Parcells couldn't overcome the Cowboy's tendency to underperform in the clutch.

I just don't buy that Garrett is holding the team back. In an alternate universe where GB misses both field goals, no one would say we won in spite of Garrett, they'd say we won in spite of Marinelli's porous defense.

I don't see a string of 8-8 seasons from several years ago as that big of an indication that Garrett's somehow incapable of winning a SB either. Sean Payton, John Harbaugh, and Tom Coughlin are all coaches that have won SBs, but have also shown that they can't coach a mediocre team to be more than mediocre. More talented team builders like John Fox or Andy Reid could have probably gotten the 2011 Cowboys to 10-6, Marty Schottenheimer could have gotten them to 12-4, but none of them have ever won a super bowl.

The sad fact is that it's better to be lucky than good. Jim Harbaugh lost his first NFC championship thanks to two muffed punts.(he also lost his first AFC championship in 1995 thanks to a missed call on Cordell Stewart catching a ball after running out of bounds), he lost a super bowl thanks to a missed PI call at the end of the game.

The perception is that you have to be Tom Landry or Don Shula to win a SB, or at the very least some kind of wunderkind like Ron Rivera. But Ron Rivera lost in a Super Bowl to Gary Kubiak, think about that. Is there a more painfully mediocre HC in the history of the league than Gary Kubiak? Garrett can win a super bowl, he just needs to be as lucky as many of the others who the stars aligned for.
 
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Angrymesscan

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Garrett just has no feel for the game, he might get lucky with a call here and there, but momentum eludes him. That said... Lesser coaches have won Superbowls so I would never say never, but much better coaches have also gone ringless.
 

Chocolate Lab

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But Garrett just isn't that bad of a liability.
I just don't buy that Garrett is holding the team back.
So you admit he's a liability (just not "that bad" of one) but he isn't holding the team back?
 

bbgun

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But you'd have to be pretty stupid to not see the change in culture that's happened to this team.
Were players flunking drug tests every spring under Wade? Was there a Joseph Randle-level fuckup under Wade? Was there a player during the Wade years who angrily interrupted a special teams sideline meeting like Greg Hardy did in NY? You do realize by now that "RKG" is bullshit, right?
 

ravidubey

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Can't believe I'm saying this but the Jones family is carrying this organization right now.

Dallas' recent success has been all about the talent acquisition and QB play, and they found these guys in the draft, including Dak.
 

Cotton

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Can't believe I'm saying this but the Jones family is carrying this organization right now.

Dallas' recent success has been all about the talent acquisition and QB play, and they found these guys in the draft, including Dak.
Will McClay and Linehan are carrying this team right now. Jerry and crew are just along for the ride.
 

ravidubey

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Will McClay and Linehan are carrying this team right now. Jerry and crew are just along for the ride.
McClay was hired by, works closely with, and is carefully retained by the Joneses. He's worked with them for 15 years. If anyone is a Jones guy, it's McClay.

As for Linehan, do you believe he's responsible for the offense's success, or the talent? 2015 should answer that question, I would hope. Combinations like Romo/Murray/Dez and Zeke/Dak/Dez combined with the OL are too hard to stop.

Linehan has made his presence felt (mainly to keep Garrett away from play calling), but he's not carrying the org IMO.
 

Cotton

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McClay was hired by, works closely with, and is carefully retained by the Joneses. He's worked with them for 15 years. If anyone is a Jones guy, it's McClay.

As for Linehan, do you believe he's responsible for the offense's success, or the talent? 2015 should answer that question, I would hope. Combinations like Romo/Murray/Dez and Zeke/Dak/Dez combined with the OL are too hard to stop.

Linehan has made his presence felt (mainly to keep Garrett away from play calling), but he's not carrying the org IMO.
So, Jerry pays McClay. Big whup. And, I think Linehan is absolutely instrumental in the offense's success.
 

ravidubey

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So, Jerry pays McClay. Big whup. And, I think Linehan is absolutely instrumental in the offense's success.
I think McClay has made a far bigger impact than Linehan. The offensive talent is so good any balanced OC is going to succeed. Of course when contrasting Linehan performance as OC with Garrett's he's going to stand out.

McClay has the Jones' ear, and it's made a huge difference.

They're far from perfect in spite of recent success. We've been below average on the defensive side and consistently take chances on the wrong people.
 

Cotton

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I think McClay has made a far bigger impact than Linehan. The offensive talent is so good any balanced OC is going to succeed. Of course when contrasting Linehan performance as OC with Garrett's he's going to stand out.

McClay has the Jones' ear, and it's made a huge difference.

They're far from perfect in spite of recent success. We've been below average on the defensive side and consistently take chances on the wrong people.
I agree that McClay has had a bigger impact than Linehan. But, I don't give Jerry any credit outside of signing the check and stepping back a tad to where he should have be standing all along.
 

ravidubey

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I agree that McClay has had a bigger impact than Linehan. But, I don't give Jerry any credit outside of signing the check and stepping back a tad to where he should have be standing all along.
Hence my inclusion of the whole family. They are making more right decisions including recognizing and elevating McClay and demoting Garrett as OC.

They have a lot to do with McClay's staying, even though he could probably seek a more prominent role elsewhere in the NFL.
 

DLK150

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Didn't see this post before, but I have news for you.

It's not Super Bowl or bust in the owner's eyes.

If everyone stays relatively healthy and we go 6-10, yeah, he'll be gone.

But if we win a playoff round, even the wild card round, my guess is he stays.
Oh I know, all the owner cares about is the bottom line. It's just dumbfounding how ridiculously loyal Jerral is to the guy but he just has some blind infatuation with him and I think there is a predetermined list of excuses before the season even starts. Paint a rosy picture before it starts to get butts in the seats. I wouldn't be surprised if he stays if we have a 9-7 season but miss the playoffs.

Just not a fan of the guy and never have been. I mentioned it earlier but I lived in NJ near Princeton when he played there so I've been hearing Garrett hype for something like thirty years.
 

DLK150

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I agree that McClay has had a bigger impact than Linehan. But, I don't give Jerry any credit outside of signing the check and stepping back a tad to where he should have be standing all along.
Jerral finally saw the writing on the wall and knew he needed a quality GM, which we griped about for years here. That goes back to when I was still doing photoshops of billboards telling him to hire a real GM.
 

townsend

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Were players flunking drug tests every spring under Wade? Was there a Joseph Randle-level fuckup under Wade? Was there a player during the Wade years who angrily interrupted a special teams sideline meeting like Greg Hardy did in NY? You do realize by now that "RKG" is bullshit, right?
Patrick Crayton, Terrell Owens were all in open rebellion by the end of 08. Pac Man Jones had melted down.

The entire team quit on Phillips on the road in Green Bay in front of God and everyone. Compared to that a little sideline tantrum is nothing.

The team has never quit on Garrett like that. Even with Romo and Dez and injured and a fourth string JAG throwing interceptions, the team was at least trying. Because they aren't gutless, because the culture has changed
 
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townsend

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So you admit he's a liability (just not "that bad" of one) but he isn't holding the team back?
I'd say Garrett is capable of making mistakes that cost us points, like the spike in the GB game. But I don't think these kind of flaws are unique to Garrett. A lot of games were decided by bad clock management this year.

So I don't think his flaws are bad enough to prevent us from having a successful playoff run. Because I think they're on par with many of Garrett's peers.
 

Rev

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I'd say Garrett is capable of making mistakes that cost us points, like the spike in the GB game. But I don't think these kind of flaws are unique to Garrett. A lot of games were decided by bad clock management this year.

So I don't think his flaws are bad enough to prevent us from having a successful playoff run. Because I think they're on par with many of Garrett's peers.
The timeout did cost us a successful playoff run at that point.
 

townsend

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The timeout did cost us a successful playoff run at that point.
Yeah but it was one of a dozen things that might have lost us that game. It's irrational to say a missed call by Garrett cost us a game when Aaron Rodgers was allowed to score at will through the 1st half, and make a 26 yard pass with the game on the line.

Any person can fuck up a play, isolating a single mistake as the cause of the loss in a close game is just a choice of who you want to blame. If you want to say "this team can't win with Dak" you could point to his mistakes (which has been done on this board), same thing if you wanted to blame the refs(which has been done on this board.)
 

Rev

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Yeah but it was one of a dozen things that might have lost us that game. It's irrational to say a missed call by Garrett cost us a game when Aaron Rodgers was allowed to score at will through the 1st half, and make a 26 yard pass with the game on the line.

Any person can fuck up a play, isolating a single mistake as the cause of the loss in a close game is just a choice of who you want to blame. If you want to say "this team can't win with Dak" you could point to his mistakes (which has been done on this board), same thing if you wanted to blame the refs(which has been done on this board.)
It was the glaring one. If he doesnt make that one then the others dont matter other than we move on to the second round.
 

Rev

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The real issue is that he keeps making all of these mistakes that you brush off as saying that anybody can make those. Look back and you will see that he never learns from them because it keeps happening. Just simple fundamental mistakes that shouldnt happen.
 

townsend

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It was the glaring one. If he doesnt make that one then the others dont matter other than we move on to the second round.
That makes a pretty huge assumption that we score a TD on that drive. A lot could have gone wrong in between 2nd and short, and the goal line.

I will say that the spike was really terrible because it lost us a down and left time on the clock for GB to score again, so it might be more damaging than any other single mistake..
 
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