Do you guys remember when

fortsbest

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If we manage to win with him as a head coach, it will be in spite of him, not because of him. Kinda like when we did it with Barry.
 

midswat

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If we manage to win with him as a head coach, it will be in spite of him, not because of him. Kinda like when we did it with Barry.

You should post more, seriously.
 

Smitty

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If we manage to win with him as a head coach, it will be in spite of him, not because of him. Kinda like when we did it with Barry.
That is a dumb statement. Barry rode on the coattails of Jimmy Johnson.

Garrett has been here for like a decade. This is his team.

If he wins, it's his win.

Saying "we win in spite of Garrett" is just getting your ducks in a row to make sure everyone knows you still personally dislike him despite any success he has.

Listen... it's ok to find fault in his coaching without taking away credit for the good things he does. It's not like you do everything good or everything bad as a coach. Last year he did a good job, actually, in getting a fucking rookie QB, rookie RB, and undertalented defense to 13-3.

And it's ok to admit that and still think he botched the GB playoff game.
 

vince

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That is a dumb statement. Barry rode on the coattails of Jimmy Johnson.

Garrett has been here for like a decade. This is his team.

If he wins, it's his win.

Saying "we win in spite of Garrett" is just getting your ducks in a row to make sure everyone knows you still personally dislike him despite any success he has.

Listen... it's ok to find fault in his coaching without taking away credit for the good things he does. It's not like you do everything good or everything bad as a coach. Last year he did a good job, actually, in getting a fucking rookie QB, rookie RB, and undertalented defense to 13-3.

And it's ok to admit that and still think he botched the GB playoff game.
If we win, it's because of Will McClay and Rod Merinelli.

To me, Garrett is a bus driver coach.
 
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Smitty

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Whoa take it easy.
Well if you are going to completely discount the coaching aspect of things and lay it all on talent acquisition, you might as well discount talent acquisition and lay it all at the feet of the person who hired the personnel director.

Come on. I know our offensive line is good, but when you take a rookie QB and get them to 13-3, you did something right with coaching. We even won games when Dez was hurt. If it's all talent, then Mike Tomlin gets no credit for the Super Bowl with Roethlisberger either.
 

midswat

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I get that dak was a rookie, but let's be honest - he put up one of the greatest statistical years of any rookie QB ever. He put up MVP type numbers.

And based on this coaching staffs horrid history of both finding or developing or coaching any QB lacking Romo-magic in 10 years, I can't exactly give them credit for developing Dak.

My point is, it isn't as though dak was a typical rookie QB and Garrett was handicapped all season and had to rely on crafty coaching to mask bad or limited QB play.
 

vince

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Well if you are going to completely discount the coaching aspect of things and lay it all on talent acquisition, you might as well discount talent acquisition and lay it all at the feet of the person who hired the personnel director.

Come on. I know our offensive line is good, but when you take a rookie QB and get them to 13-3, you did something right with coaching. We even won games when Dez was hurt. If it's all talent, then Mike Tomlin gets no credit for the Super Bowl with Roethlisberger either.
That's not a good argument considering Tomlin is actually involved in an aspect of the game as to where the Cowboys thrived once Garrett's playcalling duties were taken away from him.
 

Genghis Khan

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Linehan came here in 2014.

Since then, we've had a 12-4 season, a QB injury black hole season, and a 13-3 season with a rookie QB.

Prior to Linehan we were 8-8 three straight years.

I am guessing Linehan has a lot to do with what's been going on here lately.
 

Smitty

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I get that dak was a rookie, but let's be honest - he put up one of the greatest statistical years of any rookie QB ever. He put up MVP type numbers.

And based on this coaching staffs horrid history of both finding or developing or coaching any QB lacking Romo-magic in 10 years, I can't exactly give them credit for developing Dak.

My point is, it isn't as though dak was a typical rookie QB and Garrett was handicapped all season and had to rely on crafty coaching to mask bad or limited QB play.
So Garrett -- and let's be fair, Linehan and Wilson -- get no credit for Dak putting up all star numbers?

This isn't a top 10 pick that was so oozing with talent that everyone could see it, or that he was on some predestined collision course with NFL defenses as an unstoppable freight train. This is a fourth round pick that a lot of people thought at the time was a reach. He obviously had more talent than people realized, but I can't buy that the guy was such a can't-miss-home-run-of-a-talent that coaching had nothing, or even had little, to do with his ascendancy.

As to the staff's horrid history of finding QBs... well... uh, look at what they had to deal with, while we are on the subject of giving Will McClay all the credit. A handful of undrafted free agent types and Stephen McGee. I'm not exactly throwing the book at the staff for blowing the development of a blue chipper.

I don't think Garrett was handicapped -- look at the year previous for an example of bad QB play handicapping the playcalls. And he also had the benefit of a stud at RB too, which requires less coaching to have an impact as a rookie. But Garrett is an ex QB himself... he and Linehan definitely placed Prescott in situations where he could succeed. On top of that, people are glossing over the fact that you don't get to 13-3 without some insightful and/or crafty playcalling at times throughout the season.

Once again the hyperbole train has gone off the rails regarding Garrett. Yeah, a coach gets "zero" credit for the success of a fourth round project QB. I can't even fathom it. He must have been doing something right!
 

Smitty

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Linehan came here in 2014.

Since then, we've had a 12-4 season, a QB injury black hole season, and a 13-3 season with a rookie QB.

Prior to Linehan we were 8-8 three straight years.

I am guessing Linehan has a lot to do with what's been going on here lately.
A lot of things have a lot to do with what's been going on, including an offensive line that matured into the league's best. I'm not stumping for Garrett as the best coach in the league simply cause he went 13-3 and won coach of the year.

Just saying it's a little ridiculous to say that if we win a Super Bowl, we will have won "in spite of" Garrett. First of all, no one even knows, if that happens, how it will have happened. What if he makes a gutsy fourth down call that works and we win? He's made calls like that before. He's also played it too conservative where it's cost us.

Second of all, if we do get to and win a Super Bowl, it's simply impossible that the head coach had nothing to do with it. He's the one making the majority of the decisions. Not the coordinators.
 

fortsbest

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A lot of things have a lot to do with what's been going on, including an offensive line that matured into the league's best. I'm not stumping for Garrett as the best coach in the league simply cause he went 13-3 and won coach of the year.

Just saying it's a little ridiculous to say that if we win a Super Bowl, we will have won "in spite of" Garrett. First of all, no one even knows, if that happens, how it will have happened. What if he makes a gutsy fourth down call that works and we win? He's made calls like that before. He's also played it too conservative where it's cost us.

Second of all, if we do get to and win a Super Bowl, it's simply impossible that the head coach had nothing to do with it. He's the one making the majority of the decisions. Not the coordinators.
So you give Jerry credit for winning the year Barry was here? :tippytoe
 

Smitty

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That's not a good argument considering Tomlin is actually involved in an aspect of the game as to where the Cowboys thrived once Garrett's playcalling duties were taken away from him.
You do realize that until 2015, Dick LeBeau was the defensive coordinator for the Steelers and not Tomlin, right?
 

vince

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You do realize that until 2015, Dick LeBeau was the defensive coordinator for the Steelers and not Tomlin, right?
The Steelers still have better records with Tomlin being more involved now than the years when Garrett was calling the plays.
 

Smitty

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The Steelers still have better records with Tomlin being more involved now than the years when Garrett was calling the plays.
Not getting into a pissing match over who is better, Garrett or Tomlin. I think we'd all take Tomlin here.

Just saying, before you go dismissing out of hand Garrett because he doesn't call plays and you can't readily identify, from the stands, what he's doing every game, and you don't see what he does behind the scenes in terms of running the team as a walk around coach, you should remember that the same logic applies to other well regarded coaches.

This isn't Barry Switzer having a hot dog in the stands while his coordinators do all the work. Garrett is involved in that 13-3 record as much as anyone in the organization.
 

L.T. Fan

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Not getting into a pissing match over who is better, Garrett or Tomlin. I think we'd all take Tomlin here.

Just saying, before you go dismissing out of hand Garrett because he doesn't call plays and you can't readily identify, from the stands, what he's doing every game, and you don't see what he does behind the scenes in terms of running the team as a walk around coach, you should remember that the same logic applies to other well regarded coaches.

This isn't Barry Switzer having a hot dog in the stands while his coordinators do all the work. Garrett is involved in that 13-3 record as much as anyone in the organization.
Be nice. The hot dog was on the side line and it was a non performing Pro Bowl event. The Coach missed lunch.
 

Rev

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This is amusing at least. Garrett should have been gone a few years ago.
 

Chocolate Lab

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Garrett blows ass, end of story.

If we do win a SB with him it will be a Billick-style victory where great talent overcomes the empty suit on the sideline.
 

DLK150

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Garrett is one of Jerral's pet cats but yeah, he should have been out of Dallas by now. Wake me when this team can at least stay above .500 consistently. It's been at or below .500 five out of the last ten years and half of those were with Garrett running the show.
 
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