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townsend

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I believe that would have been a huge mistake.
Could be. Honestly talent evaluation is so nebulous. No telling if Lynch would just be a big bust. But if he became the player he was projected to be, that would make him more valuable than Zeke.
 

ravidubey

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Could be. Honestly talent evaluation is so nebulous. No telling if Lynch would just be a big bust. But if he became the player he was projected to be, that would make him more valuable than Zeke.
In fairness this is true of any QB.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I believe that would have been a huge mistake. That's how teams end up drafting Christian Ponder way higher than they should, which leads to sticking with him way longer than they should.
He was 12th on our board. If that's your grade on the guy it isn't Christian Ponder. It is Ben Roethlisberger. If a QB isn't a first round prospect I agree with you, but when he is 12th, you get him.
 

Genghis Khan

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He was 12th on our board. If that's your grade on the guy it isn't Christian Ponder. It is Ben Roethlisberger. If a QB isn't a first round prospect I agree with you, but when he is 12th, you get him.

First, there's a big difference between4 and 12, even in this draft. If he's truly rated 12, you trade down to take him. At 4, you are taking him in a different tier simply because of position. That's just begging for a reach/bust. And that's exactly the reason teams overdraft shitty QBs. They like the idea of a having a franchise QB more than the actual QB. It's a siren call and dangerous territory to be in.

Second, he's not the 12th best player in this draft so I don't care where we had him rated. That's the whole point; he'd have been overvalued at 12 and WAY overvalued at 4. And given he went late 20s I think the actual draft bore that out. Hell, look at the jets. They desperately need a QB yet passed on him to take a developmental player in the 2nd. I think that's telling and I think they're right about lynch.
 

Genghis Khan

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To further illustrate the point, look at Leonard Floyd. Take him at 12, and whether you personally like the playeror believe in him or not, it's a valid pick at 12 .

Yet word comes out we'd have taken him at 6 and we're saying we'd be breaking shit because he'd have been a big reach there.

Now imagine they took a guy at 4 - forget the position - who we knew would otherwise have gone late 20s. That's a mistake and a massive reach.
 

Cowboysrock55

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First, there's a big difference between4 and 12, even in this draft. If he's truly rated 12, you trade down to take him. At 4, you are taking him in a different tier simply because of position. That's just begging for a reach/bust. And that's exactly the reason teams overdraft shitty QBs. They like the idea of a having a franchise QB more than the actual QB. It's a siren call and dangerous territory to be in.
Couldn't disagree more with you on this part. If you're willing to take a guy 12th in the draft you should be be prepared to take him fourth when it comes to QB. With QBs if you try and get cute you just miss out on the QB you like all together. If you think he is the 12th best in the draft then clearly you don't think there is a good chance of him being a bust. QB is the one unique position where I'd say, who gives a shit if you take the 12th best guy at 4. Any other position I would agree with you. Because with other positions if you miss out on that player, there will be other options available at the same position who could be good. It doesn't work that way with QB though. You'll be lucky if there are 3 guys in a draft who have starting potential at QB.

I think your real problem is that you don't like Lynch. You have never viewed him as a first rounder and that is what your real problem with him is. And that's fine, I don't think there is any reason to get into his strengths and weaknesses at this point. I've always viewed Lynch as a guy whose talent put him in the 10-20 range of this draft. If you think his talent is 2/3rd round, then I agree with you. Don't take him in the first. That would be dumb.
 

Genghis Khan

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No question, I do not like Lynch. Now, I may be right or I may be wrong, But the risk of him being a bust is way way way too great to take him at 4.Despite the fact that I do not like him, if we had traded way back into the first round, or if he had been sitting at our picket 34 and we drafted him, I'd have been alright with it. Because I understand that that's his value. I think he won't Make it In the league, But at least take the player where he supposed to be taking. Taking him top five would have been a massive reach and patently retarded. And it looks like the rest of the league agreed with me.
 

ravidubey

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call me a sucker but if butler's hamstrings hold up, hes going to be the second coming of laurent robinson with romo around
Butler is better than most anyone we'd find as a developmental candidate in this draft for sure.

I think we're fine at WR from a developmental standpoint.

We needed to add someone that could push Williams out of the #2 spot and take over for Dez in stretches.

But as Schmitty said you can only do so much in one draft.
 

Cowboysrock55

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And it looks like the rest of the league agreed with me.
Aaron Rodgers went 24th. Lynch went 26th. So I don't know that a QB falling in the first round to that area is really a good supporting argument. If the Packers had taken Rodgers 4th in the draft instead of 24th, it still would have been a great pick in my opinion. You can't really concern yourself with what other teams may or may not do when it comes to taking a player. You just have to trust your own ratings.

It will be interesting to see how Lynch does with the Broncos. I think they have excellent talent to surround him with but I also think Lynch is a QB who should sit for a couple of years. In Denver I'm not sure he will be given that opportunity. Sanchez is a garbage QB. For me personally I really hope he succeeds. Otherwise I'm afraid it may make Jerry gun shy in the future. Of course Manziel's shitfest hasn't really done that to him.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Butler is better than most anyone we'd find as a developmental candidate in this draft for sure.

I think we're fine at WR from a developmental standpoint.

We needed to add someone that could push Williams out of the #2 spot and take over for Dez in stretches.

But as Schmitty said you can only do so much in one draft.
We just need some youth at the position. Guys like Williams and Butler are playing on expiring contracts and we don't have any good young guys really coming up. That's what happens when you go back to back years without taking a WR.
 

L.T. Fan

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Couldn't disagree more with you on this part. If you're willing to take a guy 12th in the draft you should be be prepared to take him fourth when it comes to QB. With QBs if you try and get cute you just miss out on the QB you like all together. If you think he is the 12th best in the draft then clearly you don't think there is a good chance of him being a bust. QB is the one unique position where I'd say, who gives a shit if you take the 12th best guy at 4. Any other position I would agree with you. Because with other positions if you miss out on that player, there will be other options available at the same position who could be good. It doesn't work that way with QB though. You'll be lucky if there are 3 guys in a draft who have starting potential at QB.

I think your real problem is that you don't like Lynch. You have never viewed him as a first rounder and that is what your real problem with him is. And that's fine, I don't think there is any reason to get into his strengths and weaknesses at this point. I've always viewed Lynch as a guy whose talent put him in the 10-20 range of this draft. If you think his talent is 2/3rd round, then I agree with you. Don't take him in the first. That would be dumb.
Yep. The concept is simple. If you are looking for a QB you take the best one available to you. If it appears they may not be available you work a deal to get who you want.
 

Genghis Khan

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Aaron Rodgers went 24th. Lynch went 26th. So I don't know that a QB falling in the first round to that area is really a good supporting argument. If the Packers had taken Rodgers 4th in the draft instead of 24th, it still would have been a great pick in my opinion. You can't really concern yourself with what other teams may or may not do when it comes to taking a player. You just have to trust your own ratings.

It will be interesting to see how Lynch does with the Broncos. I think they have excellent talent to surround him with but I also think Lynch is a QB who should sit for a couple of years. In Denver I'm not sure he will be given that opportunity. Sanchez is a garbage QB. For me personally I really hope he succeeds. Otherwise I'm afraid it may make Jerry gun shy in the future. Of course Manziel's shitfest hasn't really done that to him.
He's not Rogers or even Roethlisberger as a prospect. Rogers was legitimately seen as a top 5 talent. sF strongly debated taking him at 1 overall that year. It was very surprising even in the moment that he was falling. Roethlisberger was widely regarded as a top12 or so prospect, and no one was surprised he was taken in that range.

Lynch at 4 would have elicited gasps and jaw drops league wide. He's not as good of a prospect as those other guys you are throwing in there.
 

Genghis Khan

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Yep. The concept is simple. If you are looking for a QB you take the best one available to you. If it appears they may not be available you work a deal to get who you want.

It's not nearly that simple. Suppose it's a few years ago and the top QB prospects are EJ Manuel and Geno Smith. You have the number 4 pick. Do you just take the best one available to you, just because they are QBs? That would be dumb when you know full well their value isn't nearly that high.
 

ravidubey

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We just need some youth at the position. Guys like Williams and Butler are playing on expiring contracts and we don't have any good young guys really coming up. That's what happens when you go back to back years without taking a WR.
Interested to see 2017 potential FA's at WR.

1 Harris-type signing and a draftee in the 1st-2nd round would be nice.
 

L.T. Fan

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It's not nearly that simple. Suppose it's a few years ago and the top QB prospects are EJ Manuel and Geno Smith. You have the number 4 pick. Do you just take the best one available to you, just because they are QBs? That would be dumb when you know full well their value isn't nearly that high.
If no one is there that you like you don't take them. If someone is there you like you take then by pick or working a deal.
 

Cowboysrock55

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He's not Rogers or even Roethlisberger as a prospect. Rogers was legitimately seen as a top 5 talent. sF strongly debated taking him at 1 overall that year. It was very surprising even in the moment that he was falling. Roethlisberger was widely regarded as a top12 or so prospect, and no one was surprised he was taken in that range.
No one would have gasped had Lynch gone anywhere from 8-16. Which puts him right in that same Roethlisberger range. Hell I heard plenty of pundits leading up to the draft saying Lynch could go as high as 8 in the draft. My opinion is, if the guy can go 8, then who gives a shit at 4.

Rodgers was simply in response to your claim that you were somehow right on Lynch simply because he went 26th. I think that's wonderful hindsight but it doesn't really prove anything in regards to the level of prospect he actually is.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Interested to see 2017 potential FA's at WR.

1 Harris-type signing and a draftee in the 1st-2nd round would be nice.
I think this years crop of FA WRs was just so bad that it kind of soured me on that route. Plus with Dez being sort of our veteran WR, I'd rather bring in a young guy as opposed to someone who has been in the league awhile.
 

Angrymesscan

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Couldn't disagree more with you on this part. If you're willing to take a guy 12th in the draft you should be be prepared to take him fourth when it comes to QB. With QBs if you try and get cute you just miss out on the QB you like all together. If you think he is the 12th best in the draft then clearly you don't think there is a good chance of him being a bust. QB is the one unique position where I'd say, who gives a shit if you take the 12th best guy at 4. Any other position I would agree with you. Because with other positions if you miss out on that player, there will be other options available at the same position who could be good. It doesn't work that way with QB though. You'll be lucky if there are 3 guys in a draft who have starting potential at QB.

I think your real problem is that you don't like Lynch. You have never viewed him as a first rounder and that is what your real problem with him is. And that's fine, I don't think there is any reason to get into his strengths and weaknesses at this point. I've always viewed Lynch as a guy whose talent put him in the 10-20 range of this draft. If you think his talent is 2/3rd round, then I agree with you. Don't take him in the first. That would be dumb.
I think the ranking as 12th on your board is already taking into account the QB part...
 

Jiggyfly

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Couldn't disagree more with you on this part. If you're willing to take a guy 12th in the draft you should be be prepared to take him fourth when it comes to QB. With QBs if you try and get cute you just miss out on the QB you like all together. If you think he is the 12th best in the draft then clearly you don't think there is a good chance of him being a bust. QB is the one unique position where I'd say, who gives a shit if you take the 12th best guy at 4. Any other position I would agree with you. Because with other positions if you miss out on that player, there will be other options available at the same position who could be good. It doesn't work that way with QB though. You'll be lucky if there are 3 guys in a draft who have starting potential at QB.

I think your real problem is that you don't like Lynch. You have never viewed him as a first rounder and that is what your real problem with him is. And that's fine, I don't think there is any reason to get into his strengths and weaknesses at this point. I've always viewed Lynch as a guy whose talent put him in the 10-20 range of this draft. If you think his talent is 2/3rd round, then I agree with you. Don't take him in the first. That would be dumb.
All of this depends on how these players are ranked just because he is 12 on your board does not mean he is comparable to your top 5 players.

You are using that 12 ranking like all 12 of the players are interchangeable, there are tiers to every draft and this draft had 5 players and then everybody else.

Like Geng said you get in trouble overdrafting QB's especially of you have a group of players who are rated that much higher.

I don't see how you think he was 10-20 rated player and then say take him at 4 that is the definition of reaching.
 
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