What Do You Want at #4?

What Do You Want at #4?


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GShock

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Ramsey would make us better. I think to say otherwise is over the top. But I also just don't see him as a star. Just an upgrade to some of the shit we have in the secondary.
Fair enough. I just feel that the improvement of Elliott/Bosa/Buckner in the first followed by a safety/CB in the second would be far superior to Ramsey then DT/DE/RB in the second.
 

fortsbest

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Well, per the poll options it assumes decent returns for a trade down. Would you rather make it a small or steep trade down?
I'm with Plan on this. I don't trust their picking ability if they have too many option.
 

fortsbest

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I think Elliott is comparable to L.T. who would be probably ranked below Elliott if they came out in the same draft.

I don't think L.T. was a freakish back especially not in Peterson's category.
But I would take 5-8 years of LT on this team any day of the year.
 

Joe Fan

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Give me Elliott and semi salvage this garbage offseason.

Granted, a trade down would be nice but these jackasses in charge would find some way to get ripped off in the trade.

I do know that I don't want Bosa or Ramsey.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Fair enough. I just feel that the improvement of Elliott/Bosa/Buckner in the first followed by a safety/CB in the second would be far superior to Ramsey then DT/DE/RB in the second.
I don't know about that. Ramsey and Henry or Elliott and Mackensie Alexander? I'm probably not thrilled with either of those options but Ramsey/Henry is probably better.
 

Simpleton

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I don't think Elliott is as explosive as LT was. And while I like Elliott I just don't think he runs with as much power as you would expect from a 225 pound back. Now I don't want that to sound like the guy can't run because he certainly can. I think his quickness and change of direction is really good for a back who is 225 pounds for example. But Zeke just looks like a back who is very good at everything but not special at anything. The epitome of solid. Which behind our O-line is plenty to put up studly numbers. But I think behind an average O-line he puts up average numbers. He is not as good of a pure runner as Gurley was last year.
I think LT was a little more explosive than Elliott but not by a whole lot, I also think you undersell Elliott's power, he does not go down easily.

This is the thing, aesthetically speaking the way that stockier, squattier RB's run just looks different from how guys who are built like Gurley, Peterson, etc. run. Guys like Gurley (6-1, 222), Peterson (6-1, 217 when he came out) and Dickerson (6-3, whatever) are all tall and lean but also have speed and power, so when you see someone like that galloping about I honestly think it just looks more impressive than a stocky RB with great balance like Elliott.

Did anybody ever think Emmitt was a freak of nature? Definitely not, but the guy had unbelievable balance and vision, and also enough speed to break it at times, but would anybody here trade him for a "freak" like Eric Dickerson or Peterson?

Now, I definitely think Peterson and Gurley are more explosive/violent runners but Elliott's speed for his size is kind of underrated considering his weight. Peterson ran a 4.41 at 217 lbs at the Combine (1.57/2.60 10 and 20 split), Tomlinson ran a 4.46 at 221 (1.54/2.59 10 and 20 split) while Elliott ran a 4.47 at 225 (1.58/2.62 10 and 20 split), there isn't much difference there.

Elliott just looks a whole lot like Emmitt to me, he doesn't seem like a freak of nature but he just has a very smooth balance about him, he almost always turns 2-3 yards into 5-6 and he just looks like a guy who will always keep the offense on schedule like Emmitt did while also breaking off 20-30 yarders a couple times a game. I also can't discount how he carried them to the national title last season, while of course he was surrounded by great talent, in those two BCS playoff games he was going up against great talent in terms of Alabama (potentially 3 front 7 1st rounders this draft in Reed, Robinson and Ragland) and Oregon (Buckner/Armstead).
 

Cowboysrock55

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Elliott just looks a whole lot like Emmitt to me, he doesn't seem like a freak of nature but he just has a very smooth balance about him, he almost always turns 2-3 yards into 5-6 and he just looks like a guy who will always keep the offense on schedule like Emmitt did while also breaking off 20-30 yarders a couple times a game. I also can't discount how he carried them to the national title last season, while of course he was surrounded by great talent, in those two BCS playoff games he was going up against great talent in terms of Alabama (potentially 3 front 7 1st rounders this draft in Reed, Robinson and Ragland) and Oregon (Buckner/Armstead).
You know who else he kind of reminds me of? Jonathan Stewart coming out of Oregon. And I know that will upset some people but I don't think it's that out of line. Stewart ran a 4.46 forty at 230 ish pounds. He has a low center of gravity. Came from a shotgun spread offense like Elliott. Averaged 6.2 ypc his last year in college compared to Elliott's 6.3. Stewart had 1722 yards rushing his last year in college. Elliott had 1821. Jonathan Stewart ended up going 13th overall in the draft. I think Elliott will probably go in that range or slightly higher to the Giants at 10.
 

ravidubey

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Ramsey would make us better. I think to say otherwise is over the top. But I also just don't see him as a star. Just an upgrade to some of the shit we have in the secondary.
There's no doubt he's a good player.

And you can't help but like his energy and potential as a team leader. Lord knows we need that if nothing else.

I just don't get how he's this transcendent player who will be more impactful than Buckner or Elliott.

He's good and exciting when he makes plays, but sometimes people confuse that excitement with talent.
 

Simpleton

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You know who else he kind of reminds me of? Jonathan Stewart coming out of Oregon. And I know that will upset some people but I don't think it's that out of line. Stewart ran a 4.46 forty at 230 ish pounds. He has a low center of gravity. Came from a shotgun spread offense like Elliott. Averaged 6.2 ypc his last year in college compared to Elliott's 6.3. Stewart had 1722 yards rushing his last year in college. Elliott had 1821. Jonathan Stewart ended up going 13th overall in the draft. I think Elliott will probably go in that range or slightly higher to the Giants at 10.
Could be, and I liked Stewart alot coming out. He never carried the load by himself in college from what I remember and that's kind of what played out in the NFL. He had a couple of really good years in terms of YPC early in his career before the injuries but for whatever reason he was never "the guy", either in college or the NFL in terms of being the bell cow, 300 carry year in and year out back. Heck, he only had over 200 carries once in college, and he was kind of similar to Trent Richardson in that regard, a very impressive sophomore year on limited carries followed up by one monster year as a junior with almost 300 carries. Very talented physically and he's been a good player for Carolina, although probably not the impact you'd want 13th overall.

Elliott has been "the guy" for 2 years at Ohio St. now though and basically carried them to a championship in 2014, that makes a difference.
 

ravidubey

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You know who else he kind of reminds me of? Jonathan Stewart coming out of Oregon. And I know that will upset some people but I don't think it's that out of line. Stewart ran a 4.46 forty at 230 ish pounds. He has a low center of gravity. Came from a shotgun spread offense like Elliott. Averaged 6.2 ypc his last year in college compared to Elliott's 6.3. Stewart had 1722 yards rushing his last year in college. Elliott had 1821. Jonathan Stewart ended up going 13th overall in the draft. I think Elliott will probably go in that range or slightly higher to the Giants at 10.
Stewart never ran for 1800+ two years in a row.

Stewart never ran for 200+ in three straight playoff games to carry his team to a national championship when every defense of each top-ranked opponent knew he was getting the football because the passing game was average at best.

I'd say that consistency and character demonstrated at the highest level of competition is a major differentiator.

Elliott won the Bucks the Championship. And he was a coach's brain fart away from doing it again.

So while Elliott may superficially resemble Stewart, there is a lot more to Elliott than Stewart.
 
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Cowboysrock55

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Could be, and I liked Stewart alot coming out. He never carried the load by himself in college from what I remember and that's kind of what played out in the NFL. He had a couple of really good years in terms of YPC early in his career before the injuries but for whatever reason he was never "the guy", either in college or the NFL in terms of being the bell cow, 300 carry year in and year out back. Heck, he only had over 200 carries once in college, and he was kind of similar to Trent Richardson in that regard, a very impressive sophomore year on limited carries followed up by one monster year as a junior with almost 300 carries. Very talented physically and he's been a good player for Carolina, although probably not the impact you'd want 13th overall.

Elliott has been "the guy" for 2 years at Ohio St. now though and basically carried them to a championship in 2014, that makes a difference.
Elliott has never had 300 carries in a year yet either. In terms of their JR years I think we can agree they are very similar. Sure Elliott has the 2 year track record that Stewart never had. But that's just as much about opportunity then anything and I think with most RBs we don't worry about the long track record as much. It's just usually additional unnecessary wear and tear.

What I'm saying is that in terms of size, athleticism and running style I think there are a lot of similarities.

I don't see Emmitt Smith at all. Of course Emmitt Smith was in a different era of totally different offenses. He never put up the stats of Stewart or Elliott in college. He wasn't as big as either of those guys. Hell his forty time wasn't nearly as good as either of those guys either. In today's NFL of metrics I wonder if he would have even sniffed the first round of the draft.
 

stubbie

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Bosa will be a good player, but not an impact guy at 4. For some reason, I don't trust Ramsey. I just don't trust us and drafting corners. Give me Elliot. Impact player. Game changer with our line. As the draft has gotten closer, the more I like Elliot as our pick. Which means we probably won't get him....
 

ravidubey

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What I'm saying is that in terms of size, athleticism and running style I think there are a lot of similarities.
There are. BTW, Stewart had 280 carries, and Elliott 289. Neither had exactly 300, but both were close.

I don't see Emmitt Smith at all. Of course Emmitt Smith was in a different era of totally different offenses. He never put up the stats of Stewart or Elliott in college. He wasn't as big as either of those guys. Hell his forty time wasn't nearly as good as either of those guys either. In today's NFL of metrics I wonder if he would have even sniffed the first round of the draft.
The similarities are more about their hearts and role in the offense, I think.

Emmitt was just so productive at Florida and had an all-around game. Elliott also was productive and also has an all-around game.

Both are serious competitors. I remember Smith crying after losses because he had left it all on the field at UF. Elliott had a similar reaction after the Michigan State loss effectively eliminated them a chance at a second National Championship.

When Elliott carried the Bucks on his back to the title, it reminded me of how Smith carried us on his back in late 1993.

Then there are all the Fournette, Gurley comparisons in much the way Smith was compared with Sanders.

Sure those other backs had the flashy runs, but who carried his team to the rings?
 
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Cowboysrock55

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Elliott had a similar reaction after the Michigan State loss effectively eliminated them a chance at a second National Championship.
Actually Elliott called out his coaches for not doing their jobs and basically said I'm quitting and going to the NFL If he has that type of reaction after a loss in the NFL he will be viewed as a cry baby and a team cancer.
 

ravidubey

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Actually Elliott called out his coaches for not doing their jobs and basically said I'm quitting and going to the NFL If he has that type of reaction after a loss in the NFL he will be viewed as a cry baby and a team cancer.
He was emotional, pissed, and contrite about it later. Point is he took it to heart and couldn't believe with the game on the line that he wasn't getting the football. I want my best offensive players to feel that way. He agreed he was wrong to express himself the way he did. Hell his own coaches admitted he was right.

Kid's just 20 and owned his mistake, so he deserves a mulligan.
 

ravidubey

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You want your best players to feel like it was their coaches fault and not their own?
To take it personally that they lost. To believe with all their heart that the ball should have been in their hands.

I don't care if they blame the coaches so long as they keep it between themselves and the coaches.
 
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