A week of LGBTQ acceptance education in a middle school. Really?

Smitty

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Maybe the solution is mental help for people who think they are born in the wrong gender instead if deluding them with myths about how it's ok and how everyone should bend over backwards to accommodate them.
 

townsend

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Maybe the solution is mental help for people who think they are born in the wrong gender instead if deluding them with myths about how it's ok and how everyone should bend over backwards to accommodate them.
Here's the issue with that, that's what we did with gay people too and it ended with a bunch of horrible nonsense where people tried to brainwash the gay out of someone, also since gender is at least kind of a social construct, it's all a delusion anyway, what your saying is, "Your delusion doesn't match my delusion, so you're wrong".

If we were to go down to the nuts and bolts of the human psyche I'd say the "You're the gender you feel." Is more backed by science than, "You're the gender you were assigned at birth."
 

Smitty

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But gender isn't a social construct, you either have the chromosomes of one gender or other. If their "brains are wired differently" well duh, that's kinda my point.

Who you want to have sex with is a preference so there is no "right or wrong" but if you are a man and you think you should be a woman you can be proven factually incorrect.
 

L.T. Fan

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http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

Here's a good article explaining how trans people's brains are wired differently.
I really don't think the argument is whether there is legitimacy in the ideology of transgender mindsets. Whether there is or there is not isn't the problem. It the fact that physically they are what they are and to think that because they think they are different doesn't give them the right to impose their mindset or toilet practices as a different gender on others that are offended by their presence in the restroom. It's still a woman trying to use the men's toilet and vice versa.
 

Clay_Allison

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But gender isn't a social construct, you either have the chromosomes of one gender or other. If their "brains are wired differently" well duh, that's kinda my point.

Who you want to have sex with is a preference so there is no "right or wrong" but if you are a man and you think you should be a woman you can be proven factually incorrect.
Socially determined gender roles are separate from physical sex. The characteristics we associate as "feminine" or "masculine" in terms of aptitude and personality don't really have much to do with what gear you have. In fact, they are full of contradictions. Cooking is widely considered a feminine activity but most Chefs are men. Native Americans on the East Coast considered farming women's work and that caused some issues with early colonists that disagreed. Also a lot of these mores are super fluid now, there are plenty of female doctors an male nurses, full time working women and stay at home dads these days, but that's among adults. Most kids are generally segregated by gender and dressed/treated very differently in early childhood.

I'm thinking that a lot of the gender confusion comes from people whose aptitudes or personalities conform poorly enough to the socially accepted norms that they think they are in the wrong group.
 

Smitty

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Socially determined gender roles are separate from physical sex. The characteristics we associate as "feminine" or "masculine" in terms of aptitude and personality don't really have much to do with what gear you have. In fact, they are full of contradictions. Cooking is widely considered a feminine activity but most Chefs are men. Native Americans on the East Coast considered farming women's work and that caused some issues with early colonists that disagreed. Also a lot of these mores are super fluid now, there are plenty of female doctors an male nurses, full time working women and stay at home dads these days, but that's among adults. Most kids are generally segregated by gender and dressed/treated very differently in early childhood.

I'm thinking that a lot of the gender confusion comes from people whose aptitudes or personalities conform poorly enough to the socially accepted norms that they think they are in the wrong group.
Thats called being a tomboy, etc, and has been around since time began and no one has a problem with it ever.
 

Cotton

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Socially determined gender roles are separate from physical sex. The characteristics we associate as "feminine" or "masculine" in terms of aptitude and personality don't really have much to do with what gear you have. In fact, they are full of contradictions. Cooking is widely considered a feminine activity but most Chefs are men. Native Americans on the East Coast considered farming women's work and that caused some issues with early colonists that disagreed. Also a lot of these mores are super fluid now, there are plenty of female doctors an male nurses, full time working women and stay at home dads these days, but that's among adults. Most kids are generally segregated by gender and dressed/treated very differently in early childhood.

I'm thinking that a lot of the gender confusion comes from people whose aptitudes or personalities conform poorly enough to the socially accepted norms that they think they are in the wrong group.
Wow, keep trying.
 

Clay_Allison

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Thats called being a tomboy, etc, and has been around since time began and no one has a problem with it ever.
Notice there's no male version of Tomboy that doesn't involve him getting the shit kicked out of him? Might be some of that kind of trauma could cause some confusion or mental instability. Personally I do think trans people have something wrong in their heads, but there's probably no way to 'fix' it. There's no more point in punishing them than there is in punishing anorexics (they also see their body in a weird way and to date there's no way to cure them).
 

Smitty

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Anorexics get counseling and are told that they have to eat no matter how they feel, though. Reality trumps feeling.
 

VA Cowboy

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Here's the issue with that, that's what we did with gay people too and it ended with a bunch of horrible nonsense where people tried to brainwash the gay out of someone, also since gender is at least kind of a social construct, it's all a delusion anyway, what your saying is, "Your delusion doesn't match my delusion, so you're wrong".

If we were to go down to the nuts and bolts of the human psyche I'd say the "You're the gender you feel." Is more backed by science than, "You're the gender you were assigned at birth."

God obviously didn't know what He was doing when he assigned gender.
 

Jiggyfly

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Notice there's no male version of Tomboy that doesn't involve him getting the shit kicked out of him? Might be some of that kind of trauma could cause some confusion or mental instability. Personally I do think trans people have something wrong in their heads, but there's probably no way to 'fix' it. There's no more point in punishing them than there is in punishing anorexics (they also see their body in a weird way and to date there's no way to cure them).
Good point.
 

L.T. Fan

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Notice there's no male version of Tomboy that doesn't involve him getting the shit kicked out of him? Might be some of that kind of trauma could cause some confusion or mental instability. Personally I do think trans people have something wrong in their heads, but there's probably no way to 'fix' it. There's no more point in punishing them than there is in punishing anorexics (they also see their body in a weird way and to date there's no way to cure them).
I have heard females referred to as Tomboys due to their actions which were not deemed approprite by other females. Guys generally wouldn't refer to girls as Tomboy.
 

Clay_Allison

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I have heard females referred to as Tomboys due to their actions which were not deemed approprite by other females. Guys generally wouldn't refer to girls as Tomboy.
My point is, maybe females might look askance and girls with tomboyish traits like wanting to play physical sports or video games or whatever. But if a boy likes girly shit, the other boys are going to call him a queer and whup his ass.
 

L.T. Fan

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My point is, maybe females might look askance and girls with tomboyish traits like wanting to play physical sports or video games or whatever. But if a boy likes girly shit, the other boys are going to call him a queer and whup his ass.
That may be true but I can't seem to fit that into the individuals gender identity preference role of wanting to be identified as a different gender. The opposite seems like a more reasonable path. I would think the male who may display effeminate traits would prefer to not have those traits exposed because they will get him in trouble. What seems to be happening is that the individuals who wished they were opposite genders now are actively trying to play out those roles in the most conspicuous manner. Even to the extent of raising the ire of societal morays of invading the would be genders restrooms. That's bold.
 
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Clay_Allison

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That may be true but I can seem to fit that into the individuals gender identity preference role of wanting to be identified as a different gender. The opposite seems like a more reasonable path. I would think the male who may display effeminate traits would prefer to not have those traits exposed because they will get him in trouble. What seems to be happening is that the individuals who wished they were opposite genders now are actively trying to play out those roles in the most conspicuous manner. Even to the extent of raising the ire of societal morals of invading the would be genders restrooms. That's bold.
You never know how people are going to react to being under pressure. There are a lot of things that can mess with people's heads, and sometimes it just happens and there's no explanation. I mentioned anorexics before. Sure, some of them go crazy because parents or other kids call them fat or whatever, but sometimes they get that way when no one was messing with them about that at all. That's the thing about going crazy, rational common sense explanations don't really fit something inherently irrational.
 

L.T. Fan

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You never know how people are going to react to being under pressure. There are a lot of things that can mess with people's heads, and sometimes it just happens and there's no explanation. I mentioned anorexics before. Sure, some of them go crazy because parents or other kids call them fat or whatever, but sometimes they get that way when no one was messing with them about that at all. That's the thing about going crazy, rational common sense explanations don't really fit something inherently irrational.
Well maybe we can agree that to a certain extent this behavior may be irrational.
 

Clay_Allison

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Well maybe we can agree that to a certain extent this behavior may be irrational.
Well, yeah. I never said it was rational. I just said there's no point in punishing people with problems there's no cure for.
 
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