2016 POTUS Election Thread

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L.T. Fan

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and I'm not doing that for Cruz or Rubio who my greatest disagreements with are ideological. Trump doesn't have an ideology, so I cannot oppose it anyway, he is however a bad person.

Now would you like me to expound on the factual criticisms of his poor and unethical business practices which he has definitely defrauded investors with, the factual account of his multiple bankruptcies, his constant and irrefutable lies caught on tape, his videotaped evidence of him in sighting violence multiple times?

You can't say you're being objective if you ignore fair criticism, you're just burying your head on the sand. Let me add that most of the stuff I've said about Trump has been echoed by establishment republicans, tea party republicans, moderate democrats, and flaming liberals so unless there's an elaborate conspiracy between every other political ideology but Trump supporter (the anti-ideology) then it's likely as objective as humanly possible.
No I wouldn't. I really don't care about his fair criticisms. If you want to point out what his shortcomings are in your opinion to some that is fine. Doing it in a disintegrating way however just to try to make him anyone who follows him look like manical refugees from hell is what I consider over the top a n d this is where you lose me.
 

townsend

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No I wouldn't. I really don't care about his fair criticisms. If you want to point out what his shortcomings are in your opinion to some that is fine. Doing it in a disintegrating way however just to try to make him anyone who follows him look like manical refugees from hell is what I consider over the top a n d this is where you lose me.
I've not met very many Trump supporters, so perhaps my lack of experience there is part of the problem, but every single Trump supporter I've encountered has come off as irrational to me. We're talking about 30-40 year olds that I've seen regress to angry teenagers before my eyes. So my experience has left me with somewhat the same opinion of Trump supporters as you might have of drug addicts.
 

L.T. Fan

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I've not met very many Trump supporters, so perhaps my lack of experience there is part of the problem, but every single Trump supporter I've encountered has come off as irrational to me. We're talking about 30-40 year olds that I've seen regress to angry teenagers before my eyes. So my experience has left me with somewhat the same opinion of Trump supporters as you might have of drug addicts.
Well that says a lot. My understanding is there are probably at least 30 million Trump supporters and you have stereotyped them all as irrational with only a few you have met. Makes me think this conclusion is a little over the top.
 

townsend

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Well that says a lot. My understanding is there are probably at least 30 million Trump supporters and you have stereotyped them all as irrational with only a few you have met. Makes me think this conclusion is a little over the top.
I can say that if you support Trump, you have made an emotional decision and not intelligently evaluated his credentials. People are very capable of making bad decisions en masse. When WW1 broke out, the public celebrated, when Lenin took control people celebrated, when Mao took control the public celebrated. 30 million people can and have been stupid all at once. If my assertion is incorrect. That they are all angry men cutting of the country's nose to spite it's face, then someone had to surface with a meaningful reason why they endorse the candidate. I don't need to beat the bushes for a Cruz supporter or a Rubio supporter who can engage in intelligent discourse. Having to hunt for an intelligent Trump supporter should be its own indictment.
 

L.T. Fan

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I can say that if you support Trump, you have made an emotional decision and not intelligently evaluated his credentials. People are very capable of making bad decisions en masse. When WW1 broke out, the public celebrated, when Lenin took control people celebrated, when Mao took control the public celebrated. 30 million people can and have been stupid all at once. If my assertion is incorrect. That they are all angry men cutting of the country's nose to spite it's face, then someone had to surface with a meaningful reason why they endorse the candidate. I don't need to beat the bushes for a Cruz supporter or a Rubio supporter who can engage in intelligent discourse. Having to hunt for an intelligent Trump supporter should be its own indictment.
First of all I have stated on more than one occasion I am not a Trump supporter. But your elitist mentality about those that do is what earmarks you as one who has zero tolerance for those that have a different feeling about him. That's about as totalitarian as it gets. Something to think about. This is a nation of freedoms including having seperate views.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I've not met very many Trump supporters, so perhaps my lack of experience there is part of the problem, but every single Trump supporter I've encountered has come off as irrational to me. We're talking about 30-40 year olds that I've seen regress to angry teenagers before my eyes. So my experience has left me with somewhat the same opinion of Trump supporters as you might have of drug addicts.
Oddly enough that has been my experience with most Bernie supporters. The Trump supporters I know are pretty normal people who everyone likes to treat like trash when they express their support for Trump. I'm certainly not a Trump guy but the fanatical people I know support Cruz and Bernie.
 

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He would but it would drastically reduce federal income, so he has to come up with his spending cuts too. Let's see 'em.
Yeah we need cuts. The problem is that cuts sound great until people start losing their government jobs or benefits and throw a fit. Then suddenly the President who looked great making the tax cuts also looks terrible in the eyes of the people receiving funds from government entities.
 

townsend

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First of all I have stated on more than one occasion I am not a Trump supporter. But your elitist mentality about those that do is what earmarks you as one who has zero tolerance for those that have a different feeling about him. That's about as totalitarian as it gets. Something to think about. This is a nation of freedoms including having seperate views.
I wasn't say you specifically support Trump, I meant it as a rhetorical device.
You can't preach tolerance for intolerance. If you follow a man who says immigrants are rapists, then you can't beg for someone to consider your nuance. (Remember I don't mean "you" literally)

When a person talks about persecuting a religion, when a man talks about forced migrations of millions, when a man is heavily endorsed by white supremacists. When xenophobia, and racism is the central theme of his campaign, you can't ask for his followers to be allowed to live and let live. Letting live was never part of their intention.
 

townsend

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Oddly enough that has been my experience with most Bernie supporters. The Trump supporters I know are pretty normal people who everyone likes to treat like trash when they express their support for Trump. I'm certainly not a Trump guy but the fanatical people I know support Cruz and Bernie.
I'm sure there have been plenty of Bernie supporters that are irrational goofs. He's the young liberal's anti establishment candidate. But most of the Bernie supporters I interact with have been fairly reasonable. I guess Cruz is the Evangelical tea party's pet. I'm sure region and such plays into how crazy you have to be, to be a Trump supporter, but to date, I've never heard a convincing case for Trump. If you hear one, please pass it on.
 

Cowboysrock55

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I'm sure region and such plays into how crazy you have to be, to be a Trump supporter, but to date, I've never heard a convincing case for Trump. If you hear one, please pass it on.
If I heard a convincing case for Trump I'd be a Trump supporter. I just don't think that's a good excuse to be a total dick to someone who supports Trump.

Of course I haven't heard a good argument really for any of these top candidates. Most arguments start with, well they aren't as bad as Trump. Well shit, that doesn't exactly make me feel like I should support the other guy.
 

L.T. Fan

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I wasn't say you specifically support Trump, I meant it as a rhetorical device.
You can't preach tolerance for intolerance. If you follow a man who says immigrants are rapists, then you can't beg for someone to consider your nuance. (Remember I don't mean "you" literally)

When a person talks about persecuting a religion, when a man talks about forced migrations of millions, when a man is heavily endorsed by white supremacists. When xenophobia, and racism is the central theme of his campaign, you can't ask for his followers to be allowed to live and let live. Letting live was never part of their intention.
I have no idea where all this fits but okay. And by the way there are accounts of immigrants who have been rapist but I haven't heard him say all of them are. He was making a point about illegal immigrants and needed changes. As to persecuting religions I heard that there needs to be controls during the recent crises and influx. This is a position held by other presidents at different times in history. As to Muslims I am not sure when you are going here.You lost me with racism being a central part of his theme. White Supremist endorsements? We're they solicited? Maybe you could expand on this.
 

townsend

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If I heard a convincing case for Trump I'd be a Trump supporter. I just don't think that's a good excuse to be a total dick to someone who supports Trump.

Of course I haven't heard a good argument really for any of these top candidates. Most arguments start with, well they aren't as bad as Trump. Well shit, that doesn't exactly make me feel like I should support the other guy.
Here's the thing that's obnoxious. There's so much hyperbolic rhetoric about literally every other candidate that a deep analysis of any of the candidates is impossible without someone deciding you're some archetypal other who they've been trained to oppose.If people look at it as who's do I want to hire out of a finite list, instead of which person will advance my personal vision for the country, it becomes a lot easier to suss out.

To me Kasich is the most qualified guy in the race, he's the only guy who has governorship and work in the legislature on his resume. I disagree with him defunding planned parenthood but he's a right to work guy which I like. I'm a little concerned about electing Republicans because their base likes war. It's a lot easier for the Halliburton's and Northrup Grummonds to twist a republican into putting boots on the ground. Also as a vet I think my benefits will drain off the longer the republicans are in office. He's still the strongest executive.

Hillary has a similar learning curve to Kasich, she hasn't sat in the seat yet, but she was a big part of Bill's brain trust, in Arkansas and in DC. She is sharp, she is well connected, she could build a competent staff out of all her second choices. Obviously she was one of the Senators that cast the vote to send us into Iraq, and that should be marked on her grave, but if there's a single person who knows what the job will be like on day one it's HRC. She has foreign policy experience as Secretary of State which means she's most qualified to be commander in chief. She voted for my GI bill, so that's a big deal for me. Obviously there's some character questions, but until I see her in cuffs I'm just going to assume it's the same nothing that whitewater was. The reason I like Hillary best is because she can clear the way for Paul Ryan in 2020, who I've been pretty impressed by.

Sanders is 3rd for me, way longer resume than Cruz, generally more ethical than Cruz. A giant slut for unions, which I hate, but seems to have an ability to work with congressmen. The economy still needs more protections from Wall Street traders, and he's about the only guy who's not in their pockets, he also could have been the guy to be the next trust buster, which we desperately need.

Cruz is 4th for me, but the difference between 4th and 5th is way larger than the difference between 1st and 4th. Cruz is not dumb, no sir, he's a bridge burner, and a bit of a snake, but I do not foresee this guy getting overwhelmed. Unlike Rubio or JEB or Rand, Cruz is not easily flustered. He has a real chance of whipping Hillary one on one in the debates. Which is to say he has more of a presidential temperament than people give him credit for.
 
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BipolarFuk

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Check your Facebook page, the biggest idiots on there, bet they all are Trump supporters.

But he has also turned rational people into tards as well. My cousin's husband, whom I consider a good guy, is now saying lethal force should be authorized for protesters blocking streets. :lol
 

L.T. Fan

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Check your Facebook page, the biggest idiots on there, bet they all are Trump supporters.

But he has also turned rational people into tards as well. My cousin's husband, whom I consider a good guy, is now saying lethal force should be authorized for protesters blocking streets. :lol
You think protesters should block streets? That isn't safe. But lethal force is too much.
 

townsend

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I have no idea where all this fits but okay. And by the way there are accounts of immigrants who have been rapist but I haven't heard him say all of them are. He was making a point about illegal immigrants and needed changes. As to persecuting religions I heard that there needs to be controls during the recent crises and influx. This is a position held by other presidents at different times in history.
And those presidents were dead wrong, and acted outside of the constitution to oppress the people. Roosevelt was a son of a bitch, and deserves to have the Japanese internment taint his legacy for all time.
As to Muslims I am not sure when you are going here.You lost me with racism being a central part of his theme. White Supremist endorsements? We're they solicited? Maybe you could expand on this.
http://blog.adl.org/anti-semitism/extremist-support-of-donald-trump Trump is the go to candidate for white supremacists because he says things like
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
 

L.T. Fan

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And those presidents were dead wrong, and acted outside of the constitution to oppress the people. Roosevelt was a son of a bitch, and deserves to have the Japanese internment taint his legacy for all time.

http://blog.adl.org/anti-semitism/extremist-support-of-donald-trump Trump is the go to candidate for white supremacists because he says things like
"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people."
Roosevelt didn't decide this on his own. The nation was at war and a lot of fear gripped the country. It's easy to Monday morning quarterback these circumstances and call him disrespectful names several generations removed. And Trump is exactly correct about Mexico sending a lot of bad people. Not to be confused with people that chose for themselves. They are distinctly different. Trump made the distinction.
 

NoDak

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Check your Facebook page, the biggest idiots on there, bet they all are Trump supporters.
Trump, Clinton, Sanders... Doesn't really matter which one they follow. The biggest retards of them all are the ones that think they're getting their point across with a constant barrage of memes.
 
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