Draft Scenarios...

5Ringzz

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My problem is people acting like we haven't done squat in the draft...ever.
Jerry won GM of the year two years ago. All joking aside, I think the front office has actually done great with the draft for the past few years now. The exception may be last year's draft. Jones looks like a versatile stud. Gregory was a huge gamble and still to be determined. Beyond that? <yawn>.

They did build a a solid O-line over several years (very Steelers like and I'm good with that), while the Dallas of old would have drafted all flash or another 2nd round TE. It appears the overall philosophy changed with the addition of Will McClay in 2011 and that's what was needed.

Hell, I live in San Diego and the Chargers and Cowboys draft positions have almost mirrored each other the past several years and I'd take Dallas drafts over the Chargers. The Chargers are "old Dallas" and have been neglecting the O-line for years. Instead, drafting a shit ton of LBs (Donald Butler, Manti Teo, Melvin Ingram and Denzel Perryman). They can't draft enough linebackers as they completely ignored their O-line. Reminds me of "old Dallas", always trying to piece an O-line together with like one draft pick and a bunch of average free agents on the down side.

Keenan Allen? One solid year, then avg, then hurt. Melvin Gordon? The big trade up to get him last year and the guy looks in over his head when it comes to the nuances of the NFL. Dude came from Wisconsin where all he had to do was take the ball and run behind a beast o-line that the program has a rep for. Then he hit the NFL after rarely having to catch passes and especially knowing pass protection assignments. Can't play in the NFL without knowing protections, won't see the field much if they don't know that.

Like I said, SD & Dal been joined at the hip for years of drafting and I'll take Dallas results all day long.
 

Rev

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ravidubey

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They did build a a solid O-line over several years (very Steelers like and I'm good with that), while the Dallas of old would have drafted all flash or another 2nd round TE. It appears the
The Steelers in their wettest dreams never built an OL like this.
 

Cotton

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I don't think anybody is upset with the Cowboys in the first round or second round (with the exception of Escobar). After that I think the confidence level lowers. I don't know why it's a bad thing to think that but I guess it is.
Some like to think (more like hoping beyond hope) the flash in the pan we have seen in the first two rounds in recent years is indicative that Jerry has let up on the reins a little bit. I wish to all that is holy I could have that kinda hope, but after 20 years of abject failure, I just can't get there yet.
 

Cotton

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My problem is people acting like we haven't done squat in the draft...ever.
Who said anything like that? I mean, you can lick Jerry's nuts all you want, but no one on this board has said we have sucked with every draft pick we have ever taken. It's easy to find a good player in the first couple of rounds. Not nearly as easy after that point. We have proven that.
 

Cotton

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Are you ever happy unless a Super Bowl ring is received at the end of the year?
After 20 fucking years of losing, it's no wonder there are fans that aren't happy. Weird, I know.
 

Genghis Khan

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So if we are so wonderful, why do we have just 1 winning season in the past 5?
 

Genghis Khan

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This is an ignorant assumption.
It's patently retarded. I was thrilled with 12-4. They don't have to win the super bowl every year. But it would be nice to be a contender more often than once every 5 years.
 

5Ringzz

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The Steelers in their wettest dreams never built an OL like this.
I agree, but I'm hoping they're really as CONSISTENTLY good as touted. Seems after coach Callahan left, they often looked lost. Especially on 3rd and short? I know I was holding my breath every time Dallas faced 3rd & 1. No way we should be doing that with the talent those guys have. Hoping they're not primadonnas now.

I was referencing Pitt OL drafts since Ben came...Max Starks, Willie Colon, Maurkice Pouncey, David DeCastro... Pitt grabbed their franchise QB then drafted studs with higher picks to protect him. They're kinda a group of solid players, some with Pro Bowl history similar to Dallas current crop.

The difference? Those guys helped win Pitt some titles. Our guys? Let's focus on converting 3rd & 1's and playing to the level Callahan had them at? Not sure if the pub went to their heads or what, but as good as those guys are, there's plenty of room for improvement.
 

boozeman

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Some like to think (more like hoping beyond hope) the flash in the pan we have seen in the first two rounds in recent years is indicative that Jerry has let up on the reins a little bit. I wish to all that is holy I could have that kinda hope, but after 20 years of abject failure, I just can't get there yet.
It is just going from insane to half sane.

Good teams should be able to hit their first round draft choices.

Especially when they are drafting low risk positions, like OL.

OL are one of the less likely bust positions. They are only a few years removed from the Claiborne disaster.

Stray away from the line and start drafting skill positions, I bet they suddenly aren't as sharp.
 

Simpleton

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It is just going from insane to half sane.

Good teams should be able to hit their first round draft choices.

Especially when they are drafting low risk positions, like OL.

OL are one of the less likely bust positions. They are only a few years removed from the Claiborne disaster.

Stray away from the line and start drafting skill positions, I bet they suddenly aren't as sharp.
While I agree with your general premise I think you are underselling them on what they've done in terms of the OL.

You could argue that Smith, Frederick and Martin are the best at their positions in the league, and I think Smith/Martin are on a HOF trajectory. That is not simply drafting a position that is low risk.

Plus, there have been plenty of high profile busts along the OL lately with guys like Gallery, Joeckel and Cooper, not to mention guys like Fisher, Greg Robinson, Lane Johnson and Warmack who have been solid but nothing spectacular.
 

boozeman

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While I agree with your general premise I think you are underselling them on what they've done in terms of the OL.

You could argue that Smith, Frederick and Martin are the best at their positions in the league, and I think Smith/Martin are on a HOF trajectory. That is not simply drafting a position that is low risk.

Plus, there have been plenty of high profile busts along the OL lately with guys like Gallery, Joeckel and Cooper, not to mention guys like Fisher, Greg Robinson, Lane Johnson and Warmack who have been solid but nothing spectacular.
That's fair. So "new regime" knows OL then?

Don't necessarily buy it, but okay.

But until I see a strong draft that goes beyond one elite player and one or two depth guys, I am not going to be convinced we draft better.

It just seems that way since Jones isn't trading away premium picks for Galloway and Roy Williams.
 

Simpleton

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That's fair. So "new regime" knows OL then?

Don't necessarily buy it, but okay.

But until I see a strong draft that goes beyond one elite player and one or two depth guys, I am not going to be convinced we draft better.

It just seems that way since Jones isn't trading away premium picks for Galloway and Roy Williams.
I wouldn't even say that they know OL since they were all 1st's, if they hit on Green then definitely, but they do deserve credit for those picks being as good as they were.

And I definitely agree about needing to see a draft with more than one or two players, if they had snagged Carl Davis last year or Telvin Smith the year before like most of us wanted then that would've made a huge difference in terms of the quality of those drafts, but of course they did not.
 

townsend

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So if we are so wonderful, why do we have just 1 winning season in the past 5?
I think we've done very well in the past several years at getting great talent with premium picks. We have consistently failed at filling in the rest of the roster though. I blame this 100% on the lack of over arching philosophy. We don't have the right players or the right coaches to run schemes because we change philosophies so frequently. We keep drafting TEs for a two TE set we never bother to utilize. We sign a top FA, and draft a top corner for Rob Ryan's defense, then fire Ryan and install the cover 2, but keep all of Ryan's position coaches. We hire Garrett as an OC then hire a lame duck HC, sabotage him, give Garrett the keys to the kingdom, and then force him to give up play calling.

We under perform, despite selecting having acquired some of the top talent in the NFL because we don't have the vision, patience, or forethought to build a cohesive team around them.
 

5Ringzz

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I think we've done very well in the past several years at getting great talent with premium picks. We have consistently failed at filling in the rest of the roster though. I blame this 100% on the lack of over arching philosophy. We don't have the right players or the right coaches to run schemes because we change philosophies so frequently. We keep drafting TEs for a two TE set we never bother to utilize. We sign a top FA, and draft a top corner for Rob Ryan's defense, then fire Ryan and install the cover 2, but keep all of Ryan's position coaches. We hire Garrett as an OC then hire a lame duck HC, sabotage him, give Garrett the keys to the kingdom, and then force him to give up play calling.

We under perform, despite selecting having acquired some of the top talent in the NFL because we don't have the vision, patience, or forethought to build a cohesive team around them.
I love this. Because honestly, it's dead on. Props
 

Cotton

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I think we've done very well in the past several years at getting great talent with premium picks. We have consistently failed at filling in the rest of the roster though. I blame this 100% on the lack of over arching philosophy. We don't have the right players or the right coaches to run schemes because we change philosophies so frequently. We keep drafting TEs for a two TE set we never bother to utilize. We sign a top FA, and draft a top corner for Rob Ryan's defense, then fire Ryan and install the cover 2, but keep all of Ryan's position coaches. We hire Garrett as an OC then hire a lame duck HC, sabotage him, give Garrett the keys to the kingdom, and then force him to give up play calling.

We under perform, despite selecting having acquired some of the top talent in the NFL because we don't have the vision, patience, or forethought to build a cohesive team around them.
And, it all comes back to Jerry Jones. It's that damn simple.
 

Cowboysrock55

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And, it all comes back to Jerry Jones. It's that damn simple.
Of course but I don't see any point on continuing to bitch about that. So you might as well move down the chain to someone who could eventually get shitcanned. That would be Garrett.
 

boozeman

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I see Vital as a good move.

He is not a Garrett. That is progress.
 

Cotton

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Of course but I don't see any point on continuing to bitch about that. So you might as well move down the chain to someone who could eventually get shitcanned. That would be Garrett.
Has nothing to do with what I said to begin with. We are not this changed organization. We are still poorly run with a poorly hired coach hired by a lazy FO that has shown me jack shit that they will do things smartly in the future. It's that damn simple.
 

Cowboysrock55

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We are not this changed organization. We are still poorly run with a poorly hired coach hired by a lazy FO that has shown me jack shit that they will do things smartly in the future. It's that damn simple.
Eh, I certainly think over the course of 20+ years some things have changed. People change significantly over that much time. I hate the Garrett choice but we do other things better then we used to.
 
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