Archer: How Brock Osweiler could influence Cowboys' QB decision

Carp

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The premise that the Broncos got nothing from their investment in Osweiler is stupid. He went 5-2 as a starter and was a big reason why the Broncos were able to be the #1 seed in the AFC. They are also slated to receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Osweiler. I'll take those results every single time.
 

dallen

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The premise that the Broncos got nothing from their investment in Osweiler is stupid. He went 5-2 as a starter and was a big reason why the Broncos were able to be the #1 seed in the AFC. They are also slated to receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Osweiler. I'll take those results every single time.
No kidding. If Cassel\Weeden\etc had the same winning percentage we'd have been in the playoffs, we wouldn't have wasted a pick trading for Cassel, and we don't have to rush Romo back. Osweiler saved the Broncos season and owns a large bit of the credit for their Super Bowl win.
 

L.T. Fan

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No kidding. If Cassel\Weeden\etc had the same winning percentage we'd have been in the playoffs, we wouldn't have wasted a pick trading for Cassel, and we don't have to rush Romo back. Osweiler saved the Broncos season and owns a large bit of the credit for their Super Bowl win.
Tis true.
 

Smitty

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The premise that the Broncos got nothing from their investment in Osweiler is stupid. He went 5-2 as a starter and was a big reason why the Broncos were able to be the #1 seed in the AFC. They are also slated to receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Osweiler. I'll take those results every single time.
Spent a 2nd, got back a third, won a Super Bowl because they had good QB depth.

Spagnola: BUT YOU JUST DEVELOPED HIM FOR SOMEONE ELSE!!!!
 

ravidubey

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The premise that the Broncos got nothing from their investment in Osweiler is stupid. He went 5-2 as a starter and was a big reason why the Broncos were able to be the #1 seed in the AFC. They are also slated to receive a 3rd round compensatory pick for Osweiler. I'll take those results every single time.
First, I think it's fair to say Osweiler had a lot of help on that 5-2 record. Second, if Manning's healthy it's likely Osweiler doesn't even play a down. Third, if they don't win the Superbowl, the entire league is like :laff at their losing Osweiler.

So yeah, I'd take those results any time, but what are the odds??

Maybe this is where we are in the NFL today at the QB position. You draft QB's in the 2nd round with the idea that they're your backup because they're as good and likely better than the crap journeymen floating around the NFL these days.

But Denver absolutely developed Brock Osweiler for the Texans. The results are darned near the very definition of the term. He was a 2nd round pick who played 7 games.
 

townsend

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First, I think it's fair to say Osweiler had a lot of help on that 5-2 record. Second, if Manning's healthy it's likely Osweiler doesn't even play a down. Third, if they don't win the Superbowl, the entire league is like :laff at their losing Osweiler.

So yeah, I'd take those results any time, but what are the odds??

Maybe this is where we are in the NFL today at the QB position. You draft QB's in the 2nd round with the idea that they're your backup because they're as good and likely better than the crap journeymen floating around the NFL these days.

But Denver absolutely developed Brock Osweiler for the Texans. The results are darned near the very definition of the term. He was a 2nd round pick who played 7 games.
What were the odds of an old QB who had already suffered a career ending injury staying healthy for his first 3 years in Denver? Since the Broncos were top contenders every year, it was pretty high odds that he might save a season while under his rookie contract. If Osweiller doesn't start, and the Broncos still win the SB, the Broncos would be like :laff to the rest of the league because they won a f***ing super bowl, and they didn't even have to cash in their insurance policy.
 

ravidubey

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What were the odds of an old QB who had already suffered a career ending injury staying healthy for his first 3 years in Denver? Since the Broncos were top contenders every year, it was pretty high odds that he might save a season while under his rookie contract. If Osweiller doesn't start, and the Broncos still win the SB, the Broncos would be like :laff to the rest of the league because they won a f***ing super bowl, and they didn't even have to cash in their insurance policy.
I think it's clear Denver won consistently in spite of and not because of its QB the last season and a half. Most teams are not in that position.

Let's see if Jimmy Garoppolo does the same his last two seasons in New England after not playing meaningful downs his first two season.
 

townsend

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I think it's clear Denver won consistently in spite of and not because of its QB the last season and a half. Most teams are not in that position.

Let's see if Jimmy Garoppolo does the same his last two seasons in New England after not playing meaningful downs his first two season.
Except if the Broncos had had Matt Cassel as a starter they would have 7 more losses on the books, and it the Cowboys had had Brock Osweiler we would have probably made it to the playoffs. So it can make a big damn difference. You saw how fast these mediocre backups have been snatched off the market, it's because backup QB might be a more crucial role than some starters.
So since the Broncos could have lost Manning at any time over the last 4 years, and they were championship conetenders for every year, it was a great investment to draft a quality replacement QB. If Jimmy Garrapolo had ended up having to play for the first four games like Goodell had wanted, he may have also saved the Pat's season.
 

Clay_Allison

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Except if the Broncos had had Matt Cassel as a starter they would have 7 more losses on the books, and it the Cowboys had had Brock Osweiler we would have probably made it to the playoffs. So it can make a big damn difference. You saw how fast these mediocre backups have been snatched off the market, it's because backup QB might be a more crucial role than some starters.
So since the Broncos could have lost Manning at any time over the last 4 years, and they were championship conetenders for every year, it was a great investment to draft a quality replacement QB. If Jimmy Garrapolo had ended up having to play for the first four games like Goodell had wanted, he may have also saved the Pat's season.
Having a fairly solid backup also was instrumental to getting the Bengals to the post season.
 

ravidubey

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Having a fairly solid backup also was instrumental to getting the Bengals to the post season.
Good point.

So maybe we are at a stage where we draft QBs primarily to be backups because the alternatives plain suck.

But it these teams are definitely developing QBs for others.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Good point.

So maybe we are at a stage where we draft QBs primarily to be backups because the alternatives plain suck.

But it these teams are definitely developing QBs for others.
The Broncos didn't have to let him go. It was their choice.
 

Cowboysrock55

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If you believe Osweiler, he didn't want to go back. Getting benched pissed him off.
That's not really what his public statement was at all.

"It was a very difficult decision," he said of leaving Denver. "In fact it was the most difficult decision of my life. I'm very thankful. I'm very appreciative for everything that the Denver Broncos organization has done for me, but at this point in time in my career, I feel like the Houston Texans give me the best opportunity to be successful."


Obviously behind the scene's it is possible that he was pissed at the Broncos. But if the Bronco's wanted to keep Osweiler they could have easily franchised him just like the Redskins did with Cousins. So ultimately it was the Broncos' decision to let Osweiler go. They could have just as easily kept him. Which is why there is no argument against drafting and developing a guy as Ravi suggests.
 

ravidubey

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Except if the Broncos had had Matt Cassel as a starter they would have 7 more losses on the books
No way Cassel loses more than two games with that team. They were a million times superior to the 2015 Cowboys. How can you even compare the two?

Bryant and Williams were paraplegics next to Sanders and Thomas. The Broncos defense was to the Cowboys as the Cowboys are to pop warner. Not even a discussion.

The Broncos didn't have to let him go. It was their choice.
Would you agree that having only 7 games of evaluation might have slightly influenced their call to not commit huge cap dollars?

One can rationalize it all one wants, but the bottom line is Denver netted 7 games from their 2nd round pick.

I'm not saying it's wrong. If you see a dearth of backup QB's, maybe drafting a 2nd rounder as a dedicated backup with an outside shot at starting is the way to go.

But NFL contracts are too short for you to get a real evaluation of him.

Does anyone think Garoppolo is worth big money right now?

In two years if NE is confronted with the decision to re-sign and the kid still hasn't started a game, do you think they hesitate to let him go and draft a 1st round QB?

I think he's gone and they go QB early in the draft.
 

Cowboysrock55

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Would you agree that having only 7 games of evaluation might have slightly influenced their call to not commit huge cap dollars?

One can rationalize it all one wants, but the bottom line is Denver netted 7 games from their 2nd round pick.
It doesn't change the fact that if the Broncos wanted him as their starter this year they could have. Either the Bronco's evaluated him poorly or Osweiler isn't good enough.
 

ravidubey

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It doesn't change the fact that if the Broncos wanted him as their starter this year they could have. Either the Bronco's evaluated him poorly or Osweiler isn't good enough.
My point is they really have no idea, which is why they let him go. Basing a huge contract on a 7 game evaluation is almost impossible.

This is the biggest reason you shouldn't draft a QB high unless you are committed to playing him right away.
 

townsend

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No way Cassel loses more than two games with that team. They were a million times superior to the 2015 Cowboys. How can you even compare the two?

Bryant and Williams were paraplegics next to Sanders and Thomas. The Broncos defense was to the Cowboys as the Cowboys are to pop warner. Not even a discussion.
How many games did the Cowboys lose by one possession, pointless hyperbole aside. Cassel is a shit QB who was a massive liability despite having a strong running game, a concensus league's best o line, and a defense that could usually keep their opponent below 20 points. In 7 games Osweiller won 5, all by a single possession, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that a guy who had 5 more TDs and 1 less int is probably going to win a lot more games that come down to a single possession.
 

Clay_Allison

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My point is they really have no idea, which is why they let him go. Basing a huge contract on a 7 game evaluation is almost impossible.

This is the biggest reason you shouldn't draft a QB high unless you are committed to playing him right away.
The Texans didn't mind paying him based on 7 games, and unlike the Texans, the Broncos had 4 years of practice to evaluate.

The downside with Osweiler in Denver may have been that he wasn't the current coaching staff's guy. He was brought up mostly in the Jon Fox era. If Fox and Gase were still there they might have been more interested in keeping him.
 
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