What Do You Want at #4?

Cowboysrock55 said:

You want your best players to feel like it was their coaches fault and not their own?

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I'm sure Garrett doesn't

ravidubey said:

To take it personally that they lost. To believe with all their heart that the ball should have been in their hands.

I don't care if they blame the coaches so long as they keep it between themselves and the coaches.

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Personally I want my players taking responsibility for the loss. Because there is always something more that they can do. The dude who is always blaming everyone else for their loss is the guy who gets his ass kicked on most teams.

modest trade down, pick up Lawson and an extra 3rd

bbgun said:

modest trade down, pick up Lawson and an extra 3rd

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I want more than a frickin 3rd if I'm coming off of the #4 overall pick. Especially if we're moving far enough down were Lawson becomes a target.

By "modest" I mean still picking in the top 10. In the 2012 draft, when Tampa moved back two slots (from 5 to 7), all they got was a 4th rounder from Jax. the only question is whether taking Lawson at 8 or 9 would constitute a reach.

Cowboysrock55 said:

Personally I want my players taking responsibility for the loss. Because there is always something more that they can do. The dude who is always blaming everyone else for their loss is the guy who gets his ass kicked on most teams.

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It was a growing experience for Elliott and a mistake he owned.

Sure he needed to clam up, but kept answering questions. Ultimately reporters drew out how he had lobbied Meyer to keep running gap schemes they had gashed the Spartans with. When asked if they ever went back to those plays he answered "No".

He finished the interview talking about how the team would rise above it, how they cherished their limited time together, and couldn't wait to get after the next opponent and do their best in whatever bowl game they ended up in.

He then walked the walk destroying Michigan for 214 yards the next week and Notre Dame for 149 and 4 TDs in the postseason.

As for his "quitting", sheesh, he only verified that the game was his last in the Horseshoe when someone specifically asked him if it was.

bbgun said:

By "modest" I mean still picking in the top 10. In the 2012 draft, when Tampa moved back two slots (from 5 to 7), all they got was a 4th rounder from Jax. the only question is whether taking Lawson at 8 or 9 would constitute a reach.

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Yep. We typically only get more if people are desperately targeting a QB.

For example say we trade down with SF so they can get Tunsil and pick up a 3rd.

Then we're in front of Cleveland who wants Lynch and the Jets want to trade up from 15 to get him instead. Then you have a bidding situation over a QB, and the price increases greatly as we've already seen (twice).

Cowboysrock55 said:

You want your best players to feel like it was their coaches fault and not their own?

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He touched the ball twice in the second half of a game in bad weather that was never more than a 1 score differential.

The punter touched it five times.

Granted, if stupid offensive game plans piss him off, this is not the place for him.

bbgun said:

By "modest" I mean still picking in the top 10. In the 2012 draft, when Tampa moved back two slots (from 5 to 7), all they got was a 4th rounder from Jax. the only question is whether taking Lawson at 8 or 9 would constitute a reach.

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We're talking about Tampa, here. Just because they were retarded doesn't mean we should be. The MINIMUM I'd take to move is a 2nd.

And If we're only moving a couple picks, then yeah. I'd think of Lawson as being a reach. I'd take somebody like Bosa, Lynch, Elliott, Buckner, Jack (if cleared), and Ramsey. If we're falling far enough to miss out on all of them, we sure as shit better be getting more than a 3rd.

bbgun said:

modest trade down, pick up Lawson and an extra 3rd

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Not me, I am not picking Lawson high. His shoulder should be enough of a flag to knock him out of the top half of the first IMO.

GShock said:

He touched the ball twice in the second half of a game in bad weather that was never more than a 1 score differential.

The punter touched it five times.

Granted, if stupid offensive game plans piss him off, this is not the place for him.

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I think we can all agree they should have ran the ball more. But maybe what Elliott should have done is taken responsibility for the 2.8 ypc he got on the 12 carries he did have. It's not like he was lighting the world on fire with his carries.

NoDak said:

We're talking about Tampa, here. Just because they were retarded doesn't mean we should be. The MINIMUM I'd take to move is a 2nd.

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I'd rather have a fourth and Elliott then just Elliott. So I can't say there is no way I'd take less then a second. But I also don't care that much about Elliott so I would probably hold out for at least a second even if it meant moving down where I could miss out on Elliott.

Cowboysrock55 said:

I'd rather have a fourth and Elliott then just Elliott.

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Well, yeah. I'd rather have a next years seventh and Elliott then just Elliott. And I'm not talking about moving away from just Elliot. I mentioned a group of players I'd be interested in, and wouldn't want to move below that number to do it. It would take a pretty hefty package of picks to get me to drop below that tier.

NoDak said:

Well, yeah. I'd rather have a next years seventh and Elliott then just Elliott. And I'm not talking about moving away from just Elliot. I mentioned a group of players I'd be interested in, and wouldn't want to move below that number to do it. It would take a pretty hefty package of picks to get me to drop below that tier.

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Ah makes sense. The more I've thought about it, the more I'm comfortable dropping down closer to 15. I think I like some of these guys in the teens just as much if not more then the guys in the top 10.